The goal is to have them relatively balanced, but it's not a hard line. Of all the things that we've had long discussions about, the minutiae of race make up balance is pretty near the bottom of the list. It's on it! But not prominently.
Balancing Biata
- Thread starter DiodaGoat
- Start date
Myhkul
Artisan
I would totally agree IF the choice was being made now then with the knowledge of the limits as they will exist going ahead. But having picked back when all the races had significant limitation, and then finding they have been largely removed but not my race, feels like I a drew a very short straw. On the bright side I do have a back up character!
mythic
Baron
Not really true. Most detriments that were removed were akin to oddities such as "Why couldn't a Hobling be a Fighter?" Or an "Why can't Elf use 2HD weapons when they can use staves?"
Many still remain, Stone Elves cannot show emotion, H Ogres still hate and will never willingly use Necromancy, Dryads still cannot wear/use metal etc. Biata's flavor will not change. Removing the fundamental base of the race would be a travesty to the game.
Many still remain, Stone Elves cannot show emotion, H Ogres still hate and will never willingly use Necromancy, Dryads still cannot wear/use metal etc. Biata's flavor will not change. Removing the fundamental base of the race would be a travesty to the game.
Myhkul
Artisan
I think you just made my point for me! (insert smarty pants grin here) Hoblings can now be fighters and an Elf can now use 2HD weapons! But Biata still cannot cast Celestial! True Stone Elves must still show no emotion, but so do Biata still have to wear feathers. I made my choice when all those limits applied and now some do, and some do not. So "it is really is true" that I feel I got a shorter straw in the changes. After all, how I feel is hardly subject to correction! Which it NOT to say I am feeling picked on, or about to take my ball and go home.
Sage of Legaia
Rogue
It was asked in a different thread what was happening with Dryads and their armor limit but we never received an answer on the forum; I asked about it at a post-playtest meeting we held, so I'll answer here: Dryads are still limited to 2 points of armor per location, leading to a hard cap of 30 armor (24 from the armor itself, plus 6 from crafting/in genre bonuses).
mikestrauss
Squire
Shouldn't that cap be 40? Can't you get one more point per location if the armor material actually matches what it resembles? Or is there no non-metallic 2 point material now?
-MS
-MS
Sage of Legaia
Rogue
Oh, right, I forgot that bonus was added. I'm not sure if it reaches 40, though? There are only 8 armor locations, so it might cap at 38 at +1 per location.
KyleSchmelz
Fighter
Never mind that any other race can wear leather over a gambeson to get 3 points, but Dryads apparently can't... :/
mythic
Baron
It is still there. For some reason many people equate Edge weapons to immediately be metal. There are bone, stone, ivory, obsidian, flint and numerous other materials that can be "worked" into an edged weapon. Edged does not mean "metal".
Muir
Fighter
This seems more like a missed verbiage correction than rules intent.
Deadlands of Old
Baron
Yeah, given the advancement of armor values in the new rules, unless this already has been discussed and decided, I think the Dryad armor limit needs to be reconsidered.
Having to exclude metal and metal looking armor (and to a lesser extent, weapons) is already a strong limit. Simply not being able to have more than two points per location under the new rules, regardless of materials used, will be a much harsher restriction.
They are virtually never fun for players, the restrictions based on size/strength make no sense when you can have a 6'4" hobling, and pulling those restrictions while leaving in others felt needlessly punitive.
Were there consideration of also removing the advantages of those size/strength ideals? Specifically with all of the other changes racial dodge no longer seems to fit, while racial resists make much more sense. This ties back to the original ideals as well in that while other races have RP restrictions, Biata remain unable to purchase against their restriction.
Example: A High Ogre can cast Necromancy under an enslavement and be really upset about it, a stone elf can laugh at a joke and roll on the ground in pain, a hobling can be a fighter, but a biata can in no way call magic from a scroll?
Example: A High Ogre can cast Necromancy under an enslavement and be really upset about it, a stone elf can laugh at a joke and roll on the ground in pain, a hobling can be a fighter, but a biata can in no way call magic from a scroll?
As playing a biata rouge as a main for 2 years now I agree with the fact that the removal of activated abilities items it will cause a severe disadvantage to biatas and I am not saying that there should be a removal of the current celestial aspects of the biata but I think the race does deserve the chance to have a good hard look over to see if there can be a way to try to reduce the impact that a player is going to have to take from the currently added rules and I think appropriate though and change is needed in order to allow for a playable character espcially for those who are content with biatas now but can't see ways that they will be able to survive post rule change. Mabye look into a way to make mental abilities able to have some sort of mechanical effect because at this point of course they are all optional which means the balance of it in order to make up for the lack of celestial is already not there so we should not make it worse.
Biata are in an unusual position in that they are unique to our game and they are not "public domain", but rather the creation of an individual player who retains a sort of spiritual copyright.
Muir
Fighter
While I respect this, I think it conflicts with Mike V's copyright on the system documents, and sets a bad precedent if we are letting a player write their own custom race and have veto power over balance changes to it.
I feel more races should be like Biata. We should have more hard restrictions on skills or schools that a race can purchase. It wouldmake the whole team work thing a bigger thing. Allowing everyone class/race potentially get every skill doesnt support that.