Bane vs. Weapon strike sleep

Gilwing

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This came up yesterday. "Weapon strike sleep", player says "bane". Can I parry since the original was delivered via a weapon strike?
 
I can't see why not. The Bane doesn't change the delivery type (Weapon), after all.
 
That's what I said. Same would apply if it was a spell sleep and was baned I could spell shield it.
 
Same would apply if it was a spell sleep and was baned I could spell shield it.
Depends on the source of the bane. The retribution ritual only works in combination with parry, dodge, and cloak. As far as I'm aware a high magic bane does not require another defense to be expended.
 
A Baned attack always counts as the original attack type. So if you can defend against the qualifier of the original attack, you're good to go.

-Bryan Gregory
ARC
 
Duh. Misread that. Thought we were talking about how the bane is generated, rather than how you defend against something that was baned back at you. Apologies.
 
To add onto my own question, is "weapon strike sleep" even a thing. In the .12b rule book it litst it as "weapon sleep" for either marshal or stealth skill.

I do see and understand "weapon strike shatter"
 
It's a valid monster ability, even if PC's don't have access to it.

Raging Strike ritual only works with attacks with numbers, so couldn't be combined with it.
 
To add onto my own question, is "weapon strike sleep" even a thing. In the .12b rule book it litst it as "weapon sleep" for either marshal or stealth skill.

I do see and understand "weapon strike shatter"

A PC might have a hard time generating that, but a monster could swing it.
 
It's a valid monster ability, even if PC's don't have access to it.

Raging Strike ritual only works with attacks with numbers, so couldn't be combined with it.

Thanks. Yea we were npcing. Was going over it in my head and was thinking the rules says "weapon sleep" oh shoot did we do that wrong? Lol. Thanks.
 
A PC could use a poison coating + Raging Strike
 
That’d be “X poison strike sleep” then, wouldn’t it?
 
That’d be “X poison strike sleep” then, wouldn’t it?

No, it would be 5 Weapon Strike Poison Sleep.

“But why, Evan?”

Because poison coatings are still Weapon attacks that can be Parried or hit a Weapon Shield.

5 Poison Strike Sleep would simply indicate a Poison qualifier, and as such it wouldn’t hit a Weapon shield or able to be Parried.

At the very least, that’s how I think it would have to work.
 
"5 Weapon Strike Poison Sleep" is an impossible call, for the same reason "5 Weapon Spell Strike Sleep" is impossible: you can't have two Qualifiers on a single attack.

The call, if a Raging Blow and Sleep Coating are used, should be "5 Poison Strike Sleep". Poison Coatings change the Qualifier of the swing from Weapon to Poison, but Raging Strike doesn't specify that the Qualifier has to be Weapon to use it, just that it can be used with "a single numeric weapon swing", and that it adds the Strike keyword to whatever swing that happens to be. So, yeah, with everything available to me, I'm fairly sure the call is "5 Poison Strike Sleep", if you can combine the two; if you can't for some reason, then using Raging Strike would cause your Poison to become inert and wasted (without Poison Trigger).

Also, you can't Evade, Parry, or Weapon Shield "5 Poison Sleep", but your armor would block the Poison Sleep if you had at least 5 points left, and a Poison Shield or Resist Poison would negate the entire attack.
 
"
Also, you can't Evade, Parry, or Weapon Shield "5 Poison Sleep", but your armor would block the Poison Sleep if you had at least 5 points left, and a Poison Shield or Resist Poison would negate the entire attack.

I feel that the spirit of the rules should be kept in mind here. The purpose of a Poison Coating is to enable to use of poisons on weapons. The vehicle of that poison to a character’s body is a weapon. A Parry and Evade are able to be used to protect against attacks made from weapons. The idea of a weapon suddenly not being able to be parried or evaded because it has a coating of poison on it is counter-intuitive at best.

I’ll cite a section of 2.1 Qualifier Changes as well.

“ Some defenses – like Parry and Riposte or other weapon-specific defenses – have changed to specify that they work against any attack with either the “Weapon” qualifier or the “Poison” qualifier (only if the attack is made with the physical delivery). This helps eliminate some exceptions.

There are many cases where the weapon qualifier is implied. Such as the case of a bow using a Chaos Blade spell and a Sleep Poison Coating.
 
Missed that part in while looking up everything else for my response, sorry. I wasn't even in "violating the spirit of the rules" territory, then, just flat-out "you're wrong, you blind bonehead" territory. ;) Thanks for the clarification. :)

So Parry and Evade will work against a weapon-delivered "5 Poison Sleep"; I don't have the text for Weapon Shield available to me at the moment (typing from my phone), so I can't double-check that, but it'll depend on whether it specifies Weapon Qualifier or just weapon delivery. The former won't work, but the latter will.
 
Also, you can't Evade, Parry, or Weapon Shield "5 Poison Sleep", but your armor would block the Poison Sleep if you had at least 5 points left, and a Poison Shield or Resist Poison would negate the entire attack.

You can Parry & Evade this.
0.12b Page 5 said:
The “Damage” qualifier has been replaced by a “Weapon” qualifier, which is the default for any weapon swing (or bow shot) unless it is explicitly changed to some other qualifier (like “Spell” for a Spell Strike). This means that most weapon swings will just have a number and effect (just like today) – for example, “3 Normal” or “20 Silver”. Some defenses – like Parry and Riposte or other weapon-specific defenses – have changed to specify that they work against any attack with either the “Weapon” qualifier or the “Poison” qualifier (only if the attack is made with the physical delivery). This helps eliminate some exceptions.

Arrows and weapons are made via physical delivery. The Strike Keyword always turns your attack to the physical delivery type.

The correct call is for sure 5 poison strike sleep.
 
I didn’t know that the defenses were updated to list that they’d work vs Poison; that was the reason I didn’t believe Poison Strike would adequately convey what it worked against.

:)

No issues here, then!
 
I didn’t know that the defenses were updated to list that they’d work vs Poison; that was the reason I didn’t believe Poison Strike would adequately convey what it worked against.

:)

No issues here, then!

It kind of works against poison. It won't stop orange packets, traps, or any other kind of strange delivery (such as entering a room with poison air). But if someone swings a weapon at you or throws a blue packet, you're good to go.

I understand that's pretty confusing. But it is what it is now.
 
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