[.11] Banes and Ripostes

Tantarus

Squire
Can you use the Retribution Ritual to Bane something using a parry/dodge/evade and then Riposte as well?

Retribution (General, Item [Any], Daily) - This ritual allows the user to, once per Logistics period, use a Return instead of a Guard. The Guard used to trigger the Retribution ritual is expended along with the Retribution, and may come from any applicable skill, Ritual, or other effect. When this Ritual is used, the verbal will be “Bane”.

Riposting Strike [Riposte] - 4 XP (Fighter, Rogue, or Scout), 30 XP in either Martial Skills or Rogue Skills (calculated separately) per purchase, Daily - the character may, once per Logistics period per purchase after using any Dodge, Parry, or Evade skill, immediately use any offensive per-day Martial or Stealth skill known and available without using a charge of that skill, ignoring any positioning requirement. This skill replaces Riposte, removing a common source of Holds on the field and giving some interesting flexibility where the character may (a) choose something more useful/applicable for the situation and (b) redirect towards an enemy who may be more susceptible to an attack.

 
I think this will probably be ruled the same way Spell Parry was, and the answer will end up being no, but it's a neat interaction if the answer is yes, and boy do I hope it's yes. :D
 

Tantarus

Squire
I dont see why it doesn't work with spell parry and would not work with this, you are "using any Dodge, Parry, or Evade skill". Even if modding it.
 
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I don't recall the exact reasoning, but I'm pretty sure it was Polare who said it didn't work. I'll see if I can dig up the post.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
I can’t imagine why you couldn’t.

Retribution is a Bane effect that consumes a Guard. Which Guare you use appears to be irrelevant, as long as one is consumed.

Riposting Strike isn’t even a Defense. It’s an Attack that can be triggered on the activation of very specific Guards.

Consumption-as-fuel isn’t the same as activating an ability.
 
He never gave an answer either in the post (page 4 of the Riposting Strike thread, near the bottom) or responded to any follow-up questions regarding the mechanics.

My best guess is that you can only trigger one effect off a single use of a defense, and you can't use more than one defense against a single attack (barring the Intercept/Whatever combo), and since Spell Parry, Retribution, and Riposting Strike all require a defense of some kind to be used, using one locks you out of using either of the others because the attack has already been resolved and no further defense can be called against it.

I'm probably not explaining it very well, but that's kind of the closest I can get to a logical reason for the answer being no (both the Spell Parry and Retribution). I'd be very confused if Spell Parry was a no and Retribution was a yes.
 

Tantarus

Squire
I would love a firm answer on this question, trying to make a playtest character for an event next month.
 

Alkalin3

Administrator
Chief Technology Officer
South Michigan Staff
Marshal
Keep in mind the ARC folks are incredibly busy right now and Bryan specifically is on vacation at the moment.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
How dare he go to Hawaii without us.
 

norman b

Squire
Oregon Staff
Marshal
I believe it will be a no because it allows you to use a return instead of a guard. Therefore, there is no guard to trigger riposting strike, as it is now a return.
 

Polare

Count
Alliance Rules
Moderator
Seattle Staff
The intent is that you cannot join these in the manner described. Once you've turned your Dodge/Evade/Parry into something else (a Bane, or putting it into a Store Ability during a Ritual casting, or whatever) you can't then *also* use it to activate a Riposte, because now it's already been expended to power the Retribution.

-Bryan Gregory
ARC
 
I really don't think it requires a change in wording at all.

It's clear that verbals count towards how things can be chained and how they interact, otherwise Potency wouldn't increase a Spell's level when being put into a Spell Store (which Polare confirmed that it does). It's been clarified elsewhere that the call for Riposting Strike is "Dodge/Evade/Parry, [Verbal for whatever you use]". The verbal for Retribution is "Bane". All of this combined says that there is no room for combination as a result of different required verbals, and "after the use of" should be perfectly fine so long as it's clear elsewhere that using a single defense will not allow the activation or use of multiple skills and/or magic item effects.
 
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