Base armor changes and crafting/rituals

[PirateFox]

Could I get clarification on a few related items from the packet:
1) Cel armor adds to base armor. The ritual that doubles armor would include that in 2.1, correct?
2) Armor mastery adds to base armor, so the ritual that doubles armor would include that in 2.1, correct?
3) Neither of the above has a rule against stacking with each other as written, so you could add 20pts with both?
4) If all the above is true, effectively, our armor cap becomes 80ish and doubles to 160ish. I wanted to make sure that jump was intended.
5) Regardless of above, might also want to clarify that Double Down and that ritual don't stack...otherwise I can see an argument for saying the 80 base armor doubles with Double Down, then goes up again with the ritual...resulting in either 240 or 320 armor, depending on interpretation.

 

[Ragnarok]

You are correct on 1-4, since they add to base armor they apply to Empowered Armor (the afformentioned armor doubling ritual). They also totally stack with each other for up to 20pts of additional base armor. Double Down does NOT stack with Empowered Armor. Sorry folks, no armor values above 200.

 

[tieran]

just as an addition, the packet does state that you can only benefit from one base armor and one bonus armor at a time. Enhanced Armor and Double Down both grant bonus armor, so you can only use one at a time.

 

[Fade]

So, theoretically, what's the max value of armor that can be worn without a phys-rep? (Looking at arcane armor plus the new stuff). Can we break it down?

 

[tieran]

If you’re using arcane as a base, the max ends up at 50. 30 for AA, +10 for Celestial Armor, +10 for Armor Mastery.
Neither Double Down nor Empowered Armor would be usable as they both require physical suits.
ARC has discussed the possibility of limiting Armor Mastery to physical armor, but for now decided to roll out the packet without that limit.
This is probably as good a time as any to point out that the ability to have both Armor Mastery and Celestial Armor from inscription (and the ability to wear a max suit of armor) is a minimum investment of about 100xp.

 

[Fade]

Well okay, cut out armor mastery or celestial armor (one or the other) to bring it to 40, and we're saying that a guy wearing only his magic skivvies with arcane armor on them, and no other defenses can get hit with a Dragon's Breath (OK OK 8th level 40 pt evocation bolt) and not take 1 point of body damage?

Pros: Encourages more armor wearing

Cons:
. -Carrier attacks become less powerful
-Celestial evocation loses almost all of its punch, and therefore identity
- fights will drag on
- numbers are too big to properly count in fast paced combat
- ignoring armor becomes more common

Neutral:
-Carrier attacks can be more common
-increased emphasis on special maneuvers and castings that bypass armor
-repair armor is now the best celestial spell beside prison
-shatter becomes more valuable

I really think this has a ton of far reaching consequences that aren't being thought through. Increasing armor has a cascade effect though the rest of the rules that goes way beyond a couple of hits. It seriously encourages escalation and bloat.

 

[tieran]

Thanks very much for the feedback!

I want to first speak to your concern of people with Arcane Armor being able to have more than 30 points of armor with no physical armor rep. This is already something that exists within the system. These two abilities are simply an expansion of access to it. Hitting the 40 point mark would require an expenditure of at least 20xp (for a fairly specific race/class combination, albeit one that is encouraged by the current ruleset) and more commonly 30-40xp, 2-4 levels worth of xp seems (to me at least) to be a steep price to pay for 10 extra points of armor, but your mileage may vary.

A lot of your cons/neutrals seem to be predicated on the assumption that a significant percentage of the player base will take advantage of this or (and this is specifically directed at the evocation drawbacks) that the abilities will be used heavily by NPC camp. I obviously can't say that the first absolutely won't be the case, but the skill purchase data we have from the CMA points pretty heavily in the other direction. In regards to the second, adding armor to the PC side of the equation doesn't have a significant impact on the value of damaging spells thrown at NPCs. It may make other options more valuable in comparison, but a lot of the value of evocation damage is going to depend on the monster statting techniques of NPC Camp.

Again, we greatly appreciate the feedback, and it is clearly coming from a place of passion and great concern for the well-being of the game.

 

[Fade]

Thanks for the response! I'm going to do a detailed read through and get more feedback your way.