[.11] Celestial Adverse Races [POLL]

What should be done about 'Celestial Adverse' Racial Requirements?

  • Keep Requirement. The rules are perfect as written.

  • Keep Requirement. The problem lies in Celestial Magic and needs to be nerfed.

  • Remove Requirement. Modify the racial to something else.

  • Remove Requirement. Entirely.

  • Other (Described Below)


Results are only viewable after voting.

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
I understand that I am not the majority, but I don't think things need to be mechanically the same. I believe the mechanical differences and restrictions create just as much fun as the thematic differences because those mechanical restrictions feed into the thematic ones. I don't need to have access to everything in the game to enjoy it. The restrictions can be just as much fun as the having and if you pick a race that has a restriction then that is the kind of play you should expect. Taking away these restrictions and making them simply thematic choices takes all the punch out of them and I think that is bad for the play and for the representation of the race.
Ultimately, Alliance’s appeal lies in the variety of choices it can offer its players, both current and prospective.

As a result, mechanical limitations take away from the game, even if some players feel there’s added flavor because of those restrictions, because they limit options. It might make your game better, but it definitely makes others’ worse.
 

Accleates

Newbie
Oregon Staff
I understand that, however I would say that I am not the only one who feels this way which means that by removing this you would still be making other people's game worse. I would also say that mechanical limitations do not take away from the game. I do not find the game lacking because I can't use celestial magic, no one can do everything so there is always give and take.
 
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Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
I understand that, however I would say that I am not the only one who feels this way which means that by removing this you would still be making other people's game worse. I would also say that mechanical limitations do not take away from the game. I do not find the game lacking because I can't use celestial magic, no one can do everything so there is always give and take.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on the value of restrictive mechanics, but there’s one thing you said that’s provably untrue.

“No one can do everything”

In fact, given a marginal amount of expenditure in Read Magic, Healing Arts, a Weapon skill, the Shield skill, and Alchemy 3, and Blacksmithing 1, a single character can do nearly everything to some degree. If they purchase a single Celestial Spell Slot, they can even use Spell Shield scrolls. Sure, they’re production dependent in this particular scenario, but they still have all the options.

Additionally, as we are an unlimited build system, the potential “to do everything” exists in every character that is not two races.
 

Inaryn

Knight
Just to back up what Evan is saying there... as a Sarr Earth Templar with Alchemy 3, Blacksmith 1, Read Magic and a 1st level Celestial Spell, yeah, I could do just about all of it. And I leveraged that to my advantage every chance I got. I would even routinely just take out low level characters and just play safety net for them. So, yes, one character can, relatively, do it all.

Once again, as someone who's been on both sides of this, I can definitively say that, back when I was a new player, not knowing just how BIG it was that I was sacrificing fully 1/4 of the player accessible rules options really really sucked.
 

MondayMcGee

Scholar
San Francisco Staff
People are always welcome to impose additional roleplay challenges on themselves, so if the restriction were removed or altered, you would be under no obligation to change the way you play your character.

In fact, I’d personally make that choice more explicit in the rules. Make high blood biata subject to the restrictions as currently written. Low bloods could be subject to the lesser suggested restrictions of being unable to activate or cast, but still able to use items or have things cast into them. Allows people to choose their own level of restriction, and makes things clearer all around.
 

Accleates

Newbie
Oregon Staff
I would be more inclined to that answer as it doesn't destroy the history and lore of the biata race.
 

Muir

Fighter
I would argue that the differences in races is what makes them interesting, if we make them all the same RP wise. What really is the point?

Adversity builds character.
In a game where rolling a new character is a few clicks away, sure. In one where a new character represents significant financial investment in gear and garb, and months if not years of steady attendance to catch up, having certain races and classes intentionally and inherently unbalanced is a customer service issue and an unforced error on the part of the game designers.

I would be more inclined to that answer as it doesn't destroy the history and lore of the biata race.
No more than the present changes destroy the 'history and lore' of the Gypsies, Sarr, or Barbarians.

If we cling to bad design because it's how things have been, the game never improves.
 

Durnic

Squire
Owner
Oregon Staff
Marshal
I know this thread is a little old, but when I formed the Oathsworn Committee to finish up the changes, we were very careful in our wording. Oathsworn under the new rules could absolutely sleep behind a ward or use an item with a Celestial effect (like a Slayer) -- they just will not cast the magic themselves. In fact, they can even cast it themselves, but now the race packet includes possible roleplay consequences for using that type of power.

It is up to the player to roleplay the amount of aversion they have to Celestial. If they wish to stay as restrictive as Barbarian currently is, they are welcome to roleplay that way. If they wish to be more lenient or even more restrictive, that is up to them as well.

Biata are a whole other ball of wax, though. :confused:
 
Honestly, having played a Biata for a few years now (my first and most played character) I enjoy the complete aversion to those dirty, greasy, nauseating Celestial magics. It gives me RP fodder to play with, if this were to be taken away I feel that the race would lose a lot. Sure, we can't use Wards, use many of the magic items that come out (a Celestial item once got Spirit Locked to me...), be buffed by half the people at game, endure crippling agony when needing to go through a ritual for Plot purposes, or flat out not go on missions due to the nature, but how else would I prove Biata superiority without having to work harder in a restrictive and biased world? (Not being facetious, this is actually fun for me!)

All that I ask is that we not be further restricted than what we already are. (This goes for my Oathsworn brothers and sisters as well)
 

jdackow

Adept
Hope this is not to rambling. But i voted other.

So one major concern I heard is about items begin school specific. One way we could solve this issue is to remove the school once the item is finished so it becomes general. So a circle of Power item could be usable by an caster, disarm same idea. The mechanical aspect is that magic is general. It is the cast that is channeling it in a specific way. In this way a ward item could be activated by an Earth caster and it then become an earth ward but the initial item would have been made by a C caster. Thematically the item is not restricted to any race is still general once it is an item. but character can choose if that refrain from even using item they know have be made by channeling magic in a way. So in the case of wards and wizard lock are not still celestial only to cast but not as restrictive depending on how you want to roll play the aversion. Also it keeps most found item open to all.
 
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