Class and School Breakup September '19

Alkalin3

Administrator
Chief Technology Officer
South Michigan Staff
Marshal
This month I looked at Character Class Metrics for September.
I added a bonus info graph showing primary school breakup,
because its close to Halloween now and magic is spooky
(or I thought these two went together, take your pick).
September 19.png
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This is only characters who have played events in October (if the event started in August and carried over into September it was counted. i.e. Utah and Oregon's 3 days)
Characters are only counted once in this breakup, even if they played more than one event. However, if a player had played 2 different characters, they were both counted. This only includes pcs, no event buy backs, and no npcs who got credit to a character.
Primary School data is based off what the user has selected, so it's possible some character may have selected a primary school and not purchased spells (yet).
 
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Ruki

Scholar
Not much love for the rogues apparently.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Spellsword is way more popular than I expected. Scholars are as popular as I expected.
 

Polare

Count
Alliance Rules
Moderator
Seattle Staff
Not much love for the rogues apparently.
Rogues have a lot more situational filters than other classes that might discourage people from playing them. For example, there's some camp sites where there simply isn't a chance for getting around back of the normal "fighting areas". Similarly, if I had 2 characters - one Rogue and one something else - I would likely not want to play the Rogue at a game day which happens to be fully indoors.

Finally, although skills allow a lot of "be all you can't be", playing Rogue probably requires the highest OOG skill level - actually sneaking around in the dark is a noticeably higher OOG bar than many of the other classes have. If you're not the greatest OOG fighter you can grab more profs, Strikes, and so forth; if you're not the greatest OOG packet chucker you can still use an Oak of the Archmage or stick to touchcasting; but it's hard to be an effective Rogue if you're loud as a bag of rocks OOG. You can do it - Archery Rogues and Crafting Rogues are much more valid builds in 2.0 than they were in 1.3 - but I strongly suspect that these factors naturally filter down the number of pure Rogues compared to Scholars and Fighters.
 

Polare

Count
Alliance Rules
Moderator
Seattle Staff
If the "Scholar" slice were to be divided into "Earth Scholar" and "Celestial Scholar", it looks like we'd have roughly 23% Earth Scholars and 12% Celestial Scholars. So Fighter is the most played class if you think of E and C Scholars as separate classes (but not by much; Fighters and E Scholars would be neck and neck). I've heard arguments both ways on how to think of them.
 

Alkalin3

Administrator
Chief Technology Officer
South Michigan Staff
Marshal
Also, if you split up Celestial scholars from Scholar, assuming celestial is about 33% of the scholar base, you'd have about 12%. Right about where Rogues are. My gut says there's probably probably also an offensive and defensive fiffh
 

Alkalin3

Administrator
Chief Technology Officer
South Michigan Staff
Marshal
If the "Scholar" slice were to be divided into "Earth Scholar" and "Celestial Scholar", it looks like we'd have roughly 23% Earth Scholars and 12% Celestial Scholars. So Fighter is the most played class if you think of E and C Scholars as separate classes (but not by much; Fighters and E Scholars would be neck and neck). I've heard arguments both ways on how to think of them.
Beat me to it, and it's why I included the primary school data.
 

jerrett

Newbie
I find it interesting that 57.1% of people play classes that touch scholar (scholar, adept, spellsword), 45% of people play classes that touch fighter (fighter, scout, spellsword), and 21.3% of people play classes that touch rogue (rogue, adept, scout).

I think Polare's thoughts re: why the rogue-based numbers may be lower is spot on.

I must say I feel like adept is less popular than I was expecting and scout seemed more popular than I thought. I would have thought something like 7.5-12.5% for Adept and something like 2.5% for scout.

Would love to see this reflected in a quarterly overall at somepoint next year to see if these numbers hold relatively stable.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Well, there’s something that this doesn’t touch on. Dipping. Or as I like to call it, pseudohybrids.

This grid doesn’t show the amount of fighters or scholars who’ve dipped into Stealth for Dodges, particularly Scholars who have dipped for United Blow (I’m heading there myself)!

It doesn’t show the amount of non-fighters who’ve dipped into Martial for a couple Profs/Parries.

I feel that dipping Scholar for HM isn’t a great return, comparatively, but being Scholar and dipping Martial/Stealth is very strong. I don’t know how widespread that opinion is, of course.
 

Ruki

Scholar
This grid doesn’t show the amount of fighters or scholars who’ve dipped into Stealth for Dodges, particularly Scholars who have dipped for United Blow (I’m heading there myself)!
A dip for United Blow? That's an expensive 72xp dip!
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
A dip for United Blow? That's an expensive 72xp dip!
Not really. Two Evades, 4 Counteracts (I’m a shield user, so I suspect a non-Shield user would probably go something like traps instead), a Dodge, HA/Alchemy 5. I mean, yes, it’s a lot of XP, but you get a pretty hefty amount of stuff for that XP.

It’s not something I’d recommend to a scholar under level 30, but later on? Definitely not a bad investment.
 

Feldor

Scholar
Marshal
A dip for United Blow? That's an expensive 72xp dip!
It is, but oh so worth it, even when you can barely afford the dip. My level 19-at-conversion earth-scholar did that dip, and it makes him as an earth scholar so much more effective that he ever was as a spellsword. The 10x spell damage added to weapon damage is so effective, in a really fun way.

My personal dip is 7 alchemy, herb lore, 2 evades, 1 dodge, 2 counteract. And that adding a bit of physical defenses to a scholar is also very solid tactically.
 

Ruki

Scholar
Just gonna say, United Blow? My favorite skill in the game.
 

Mori

Newbie
Alliance Logistics
The problem with rogue from my point of view (as someone who's main'ed rogue since 2008-ish) is that what had been fun about Rogue isn't as fun anymore. Without an effect that has an extremely strong possibility of taking someone down in a single hit, you can't play the extreme waylay game ("Nearly Certain Death Is My Mini-Game"). I'm still doing the run-by combat strafes, which does require OOG speed and situational awareness to make work, but most of my big hits are getting to be parried or dodged or evaded, so I can't take the risks I use to to try to waylay the Big Bad in the midst of their minions, since I don't have anything that works as a takedown.

Doom Blow is sad as a capstone, especially when sitting next to United Blow. United Blow better supports the old-style riskier play because you have more spells than you get Assassinates and can afford to throw three or four at a single enemy without that being the only thing you are killing today. (My personal suggestion for a fix would be to add a capstone ability that lets paralysis/sleep strikes swing as Arcane instead of Weapon if you first spend ten seconds within weapon range staring at both of someone's shoulder blades, but I got the sense that this change in play style was on purpose so my hopes aren't high.)

It may also be that there is some untapped group of people who will really enjoy playing Rogue the way it is written right now, and it is just that the overlap between that and the people who used to enjoy playing Rogues is small. Other classes, and especially scholars, got more options for how they want to play the game, whereas we need people who never previously considered Rogue to come in and figure out what is particularly fun about it now if this version of rogue is going to be popular.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
I suspect that Rogues are going to probably vary significantly from chapter to chapter. And, honestly, maybe even site to site.

I've come around to disliking Doom Blow. I'd much prefer it if it included a burst damage factor. Personally, I'd make it do the Doom Carrier, plus damage equal to your current Assassinate damage or your strongest potential United Blow damage.
 

Tantarus

Squire
The problem with rogue from my point of view (as someone who's main'ed rogue since 2008-ish) is that what had been fun about Rogue isn't as fun anymore. Without an effect that has an extremely strong possibility of taking someone down in a single hit, you can't play the extreme waylay game ("Nearly Certain Death Is My Mini-Game"). I'm still doing the run-by combat strafes, which does require OOG speed and situational awareness to make work, but most of my big hits are getting to be parried or dodged or evaded, so I can't take the risks I use to to try to waylay the Big Bad in the midst of their minions, since I don't have anything that works as a takedown.
As an occasional and current rogue, I disagree, waylay was far to strong and kinda boring when it worked so big things, so much that they all became immune for the most part. I always hated the "expecting waylay" game.

Doom Blow is sad as a capstone, especially when sitting next to United Blow. United Blow better supports the old-style riskier play because you have more spells than you get Assassinates and can afford to throw three or four at a single enemy without that being the only thing you are killing today.
This I totally agree with, doom blow feels really weak when compared to eviscerate for instance. So much so I kinda regret buying more then one, I can sell back 4 of my doom blows for 10 waylays. Which are pretty effective, dont have to go through armor even. I really think that the rogue keystone being a carrier makes it underwhelming, it should either be a strike up Weapon Doom. Or you should get your assassinate/united blow damage added to it for free.

It may also be that there is some untapped group of people who will really enjoy playing Rogue the way it is written right now, and it is just that the overlap between that and the people who used to enjoy playing Rogues is small. Other classes, and especially scholars, got more options for how they want to play the game, whereas we need people who never previously considered Rogue to come in and figure out what is particularly fun about it now if this version of rogue is going to be popular.
While I enjoy rogue current. I agree it has some issues compared to other classes. I would like to see Opportunity strike be cheaper and half the prereg to get. Opening up more use when you cant get behind stuff. Also allowing more use of some of the skill strikes, all of which are underwhelming outside of waylay and assassinate.
 

Xanian

Newbie
I personally would like to see backstab damage be increased (perhaps 3:1 instead of 2:1) to bring them more in line with what a fighter can do. When a fighter's all day swings are the average of your front and back, there really is no numerical reason to go backstab (as it is VERY unlikely that half of your attacks are from behind, unless you are exceptionally skilled).
 

Alkalin3

Administrator
Chief Technology Officer
South Michigan Staff
Marshal
I am one of the 4% of Scouts, (although not on this chart becuase I only plotted during this time).

The problem with rogue from my point of view (as someone who's main'ed rogue since 2008-ish) is that what had been fun about Rogue isn't as fun anymore. Without an effect that has an extremely strong possibility of taking someone down in a single hit, you can't play the extreme waylay game ("Nearly Certain Death Is My Mini-Game"). I'm still doing the run-by combat strafes, which does require OOG speed and situational awareness to make work, but most of my big hits are getting to be parried or dodged or evaded, so I can't take the risks I use to to try to waylay the Big Bad in the midst of their minions, since I don't have anything that works as a takedown.
I absolutely love Sleep/Paralysis Blow, while I lament waylay being gone, I was also one of the people who pushed for its removal at symposium.
No more arguments about people saying they saw me, or they knew I was there, or that I didn't hit them on the shoulder blade. Now you just call the skill and it resolves. Now I can affect Undead and other no metabs with a hard take out. It's really a work horse for me.
I used it a ton, while I only have 3, they generally land. If you're finding your defenses are always being called to your skills, I'd encourage you to talk to your plot team. 2.0 is a significant change in stating, and if you stat monsters for 1.3, you can really ruin the dynamic.

I had a similar talk about rogue stuff and defenses at a game I played, and I found that once the team started considering rogues in their equation, life got a bit better.


Doom Blow is sad as a capstone, especially when sitting next to United Blow. United Blow better supports the old-style riskier play because you have more spells than you get Assassinates and can afford to throw three or four at a single enemy without that being the only thing you are killing today. (My personal suggestion for a fix would be to add a capstone ability that lets paralysis/sleep strikes swing as Arcane instead of Weapon if you first spend ten seconds within weapon range staring at both of someone's shoulder blades, but I got the sense that this change in play style was on purpose so my hopes aren't high.)
That's a cool idea. No other skills work like that, and I get what you're going for.
I don't have a problem with the weapon carrier, and I think Arcane will force some teams to start adding more of the bad defenses, i.e. phase or immunity to doom since they won't be able to deal with this in another when they're flat caught. Folks are still particularly attached I think to their boss characters but, Immunity to doom is a horrifying thing on a card.

I'm really just a fan of Weapon Doom for this. Or scrapping the doom concept all together and going back to the drawing bored.
Do Rogues really need a doom effect? Fighter's no longer have a -1 move, and against my better judgement, it largely turned into a not a big deal.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Fighters no longer have a -1 move?

Do all your monsters have over 500 Body? >.>
 

Alkalin3

Administrator
Chief Technology Officer
South Michigan Staff
Marshal
No. Like I said, I made a fuss about it when it we discussed the idea. And I was wrong.

But, Evisecrate is not a true -1 move.
 
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