Claws and 1/2 damage from weapons flaw(s)

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Avaran

Baron
Does 1/2 damage from weapons count for claws?

Argument against:
You don't require a weapon skill to use Claws.
Cannot use weapon coatings.
Cannot enchant with Blade-enchanting rituals

Argument for:
Rules-wise, they are treated as weapons, and follow weapon guidelines for construction and safety.
 

norman b

Squire
You can use weapon coatings on claws. You do need a weapon skill, its called Claws (Except for Golems).

Your arguement for supports that half damage from weapons counts for Claws. Keep it simple silly :p Weapon reps are weapons, arrow packets are weapons, claws are weapons. Makes it simple.
 
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Draven

Count
Claws count as weapons for purposes of qualifying for Critical Attack, which requires a weapon skill.

Ergo, claws are weapons.
 
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Avaran

Baron
Claws count as weapons for purposes of qualifying for Critical Attack, which requires a weapon skill.

Ergo, claws are weapons.

Claws cannot be enchanted by rituals that target weapons....for example, if Torgamus The Dire Bear of More Powerful Than Anyone Has Ever Heard Of is clawing a Racoon with "4-Normal" calls, but the Racoon is calling "No effect!" because they have a PA-4, The Dire Bear cannot then enchant his claw (he has the Power!) to hit for +<#Value> with a Race Reaver or with a DA because it is not a valid target for those rituals, so our Racoon is still safe (whew!).

Ergo, not a weapon.
 
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Gandian Ravenscroft

Knight
Chicago Staff
Marshal
If I'm hitting you with something foamy, be it red or any other color, consider it a weapon and, if you take half damage from weapons, go ahead and take half damage from whatever damage I'm swinging.

Adam, not to sound rude, but is there an actual reason for your firmness in Claws not being considered a Weapon, or are we just venturing into nitpicky letter-of-the-rules-instead-of-spirit-of-the-rules territory like so often happens on these boards?
 
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Avaran

Baron
Adam, not to sound rude, but is there an actual reason for your firmness in Claws not being considered a Weapon, or are we just venturing into nitpicky letter-of-the-rules-instead-of-spirit-of-the-rules territory like so often happens on these boards?

I'm not being firm, I'm asking because I am unsure.

I am unsure because on one hand, it is considered a weapon (can use weapon coatings[misremembered], must follow OOG weapon safety guidelines), and in other instances, claws aren't considered weapons (they aren't listed under "Weapons" in the skills chart, they are listed under "Racial Skills" and cannot be the target of Weapon rituals)....so I want to know which is which. If claws are only NOT considered weapons for the purposes of rituals weapon rituals being unable to target them, then I feel that should be made more clear.

Your thoughts on the matter ("If I'm hitting you with something foamy, be it red or any other color, consider it a weapon...") were my initial thoughts, but then a few other points of data popped up and I wanted a broader opinion/clarification.

And to answer your other question, yes, there is a particular reason for this line of inquiry insofar as it will determine instructions that I give to my NPC's.
 
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kalindra

Adept
In the context of "half damage from weapons," the word weapon is being used in reference to weapon-delivered attacks.

ARB pg 96, under the Deliveries section:
"Weapon: This includes all blows from all weapons including arrows, bolts, thrown weapons, and claws."

As far as I know, claws are not considered weapons for the purposes of 1) disarm/shatter/destroy/enflame, 2) rituals that target weapons, 3) tagging. (Unless I'm forgetting one, I think that's it??)
 
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MaxIrons

Knight
Marshal
So claws are not weapons per se, but deliver weapons attacks. The skill claws is not a weapon skill, but many skills have a prerequisite of a weapon skill or claws.

So, to answer the original question if that summary is correct, yes, they take half damage as claws are a weapon attack delivery method.
 
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Draven

Count
Claws cannot be enchanted by rituals that target weapons....for example, if Torgamus The Dire Bear of More Powerful Than Anyone Has Ever Heard Of is clawing a Racoon with "4-Normal" calls, but the Racoon is calling "No effect!" because they have a PA-4, The Dire Bear cannot then enchant his claw (he has the Power!) to hit for +<#Value> with a Race Reaver or with a DA because it is not a valid target for those rituals, so our Racoon is still safe (whew!).

Ergo, not a weapon.

That's because Claws are part of the Body, not because Claws aren't weapons. DA's can't target Body, ergo, Claws are Weapons that can't be targeted by rituals that can't target Body.

Ergo, still a weapon.
 
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norman b

Squire
they aren't listed under "Weapons" in the skills chart, they are listed under "Racial Skills" and cannot be the target of Weapon rituals.

Two Weapons is listed under "Weapons" in the Skill chart but Florentine, Shield, and Style Master are listed under "Fighting Skills" where as Weapon Master is listed under "Fighting Skills" and not in "Weapons". This makes no sense as Weapon Master gives all Weapon Skills but not Two Weapons as that is covered by Style Master. The ARB has a lot of layout issues and should have some things rearranged. Just because it is listed in the "Racial" does not mean it is not a Weapon skill. Plus the rule is that Claws count as a weapon skill as a prerequisite for Fighting skills even though the ARB does not specifically state that it qualifies.
 
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