Favorite editorial cartoons: December 2009
- Thread starter Mike Ventrella
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Gee-Perwin
Adept
Like I said months ago, I feel bad for any one who voted for Obama thinking he was a peace candidate. He's just another war monger.
Mike Ventrella
Duke
Gee-Perwin said:
I'd still vote for him over McCain and Palin any day (both of whom are even more warmongering), but that doesn't mean I ever agreed with him 100%. Anyone who follows someone else unquestioningly has problems.
Still, Obama is being consistent. During the campaign, he said he wanted to reduce the troops from Iraq and send them to Afghanistan to fight the Taliban. This should not be a surprise to anyone.
The reason he is getting a lot of criticism is that the situation has changed since he became President -- we know now that Afghanistan is a country full of corruption that probably will do nothing to help us.
Gee-Perwin
Adept
Fearless Leader said:
You could say the same about a lot of countries, but that doesn't mean we should be intervening. That's the problem with politicians, and many people in general. They are mostly interventionists, but maybe they don't necessarily agree with where we should be using the force. Lets say his plan works and we win. Then what? Afghanistan just turns into another place where we have bases there forever (or until we go bankrupt). Look all over the world where we have been in wars, win or lose. Bases get built there and we never leave. Long live the American Empire. I'm obviously against all these so called wars, but if you are for these then you should DEMAND a formal declaration of war! Put your money where your mouth is and use the freaking Constitution. Or just make up excuses why declarations aren't necessary or archaic. It doesn't matter really since the government stopped following that little rulebook long, long ago.
BTW, moving US troops out of Iraq and adding mercenaries is a fantastic way to fudge the number of "troops" there. Over 100k mercenaries there as of September of this year, but lets not talk about that. Oh, and think we'll ever close down those giant bases built there? Not unless the US goes bankrupt. There will always be troops in that country.
I wish I understood then, before I got married, what I understand now about the government. I would have stop paying my taxes back then and lived my life as a free person, consequences be damned. I can't do that right now because of my family obligations, but that will likely change when my children are old enough to care for themselves. I find the actions of the government morally reprehensible and I want no part in their schemes. They stopped playing by the peoples' rules long ago, so there really is no point in me playing by their rules (Natural Law makes more sense anyway).
Mike Ventrella
Duke
Gee-Perwin said:
Well, I can't agree with that, of course. Anarchy is just as unrealistic as communism.
I guess I'm more of an optimist. The government is US, not them. We elect them. They work for us. If we get bad government, it's our fault for not paying attention, not voting, not protesting, and not getting involved. We get the government we deserve.
Giving up won't solve anything nor make anything better.
Mike Ventrella
Duke
Gee-Perwin
Adept
The government is not me, it is them. I don't send troops overseas without declarations of war (as the Constitution mandates) to kill people. I don't support a global empire of bases. I don't support a fiat currency that is unconstitutional. I take no responsibility for these actions. You can say that maybe I need to vote more, protest more, get more involved, and pay more attention. Even if I did all those things I'd still be forced into a system that steals over 20% of my paycheck (and I'm looking at it right now), and a local government that will steal my home if I refuse to pay property taxes. How can I own myself if I can't even collect all of the fruits of my labor? How do I own my land if I have to pay property taxes or risk losing my home?
Keep voting and yelling, but as long as we the idiot tax payers keep mailing them checks they won't care. Like I said, I'd rather live my life without fear that they'll send men with guns to lock me in a jail cell. You can call it giving up, but I look at people who refuse to pay their taxes as the real heroes of this country. I hope to join them one day.
Keep voting and yelling, but as long as we the idiot tax payers keep mailing them checks they won't care. Like I said, I'd rather live my life without fear that they'll send men with guns to lock me in a jail cell. You can call it giving up, but I look at people who refuse to pay their taxes as the real heroes of this country. I hope to join them one day.
Duke Frost
Baron
“Government is not reason. It is not eloquence. Government is force; like fire it is a dangerous servant -- and a fearful master.”
—George Washington, 1797
“Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question.”
—Thomas Jefferson
“A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.”
—Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, 1801
“The essence of Government is power; and power, lodged as it must be in human hands, will ever be liable to abuse.”
—James Madison
“The propensity of all single and numerous assemblies is to yield to the impulse of sudden and violent passions, and to be seduced by factious leaders into intemperate and pernicious resolutions.
—James Madison
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the Public Treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the Public Treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy always followed by dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been two-hundred years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to abundance; from abundance to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence; from dependence back again into bondage.”
—Alexander Fraser Tyler, 1700
”We have rights, as individuals, to give as much of our own money as we please to charity; but as members of Congress we have no right so to appropriate a dollar of public money.”
—David Crockett, USA Congressman (1827-1835)
“The first lesson of economics is scarcity: there is never enough of anything to fully satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics.”
—Thomas Sowell
“What is history but the story of how politicians have squandered the blood and treasure of the human race?”
—Thomas Sowell
—George Washington, 1797
“Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question.”
—Thomas Jefferson
“A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.”
—Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, 1801
“The essence of Government is power; and power, lodged as it must be in human hands, will ever be liable to abuse.”
—James Madison
“The propensity of all single and numerous assemblies is to yield to the impulse of sudden and violent passions, and to be seduced by factious leaders into intemperate and pernicious resolutions.
—James Madison
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the Public Treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the Public Treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy always followed by dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been two-hundred years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to abundance; from abundance to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence; from dependence back again into bondage.”
—Alexander Fraser Tyler, 1700
”We have rights, as individuals, to give as much of our own money as we please to charity; but as members of Congress we have no right so to appropriate a dollar of public money.”
—David Crockett, USA Congressman (1827-1835)
“The first lesson of economics is scarcity: there is never enough of anything to fully satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics.”
—Thomas Sowell
“What is history but the story of how politicians have squandered the blood and treasure of the human race?”
—Thomas Sowell
Duke Frost
Baron
I think we just moved from complacency to apathy. Dependence is next. Luckily, I should be dead by the time we hit bondage again.
Scott
Scott
Gee-Perwin
Adept
My favorite Franklin quote will always be, "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Mike Ventrella
Duke
Gee-Perwin said:
Except, of course, he never said that. Some blogger did some years ago and everyone says it was Franklin.
Well, you guys go and complain and whine about the system and go to your tea parties and so on. We'll see if anything changes. Me? I'll continue to work within the system to change it, by challenging laws I disagree with through the courts, voting every single election, working on and contributing to campaigns, and discussing politics with anyone willing to debate.
Duke Frost
Baron
Fearless Leader said:Except, of course, he never said that. Some blogger did some years ago and everyone says it was Franklin.
Well, you guys go and complain and whine about the system and go to your tea parties and so on. We'll see if anything changes. Me? I'll continue to work within the system to change it, by challenging laws I disagree with through the courts, voting every single election, working on and contributing to campaigns, and discussing politics with anyone willing to debate.
Yeah,that's working out so well. Keep on keeping on.
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." --Albert Einstein
Duke Frost said:Fearless Leader said:Except, of course, he never said that. Some blogger did some years ago and everyone says it was Franklin.
Well, you guys go and complain and whine about the system and go to your tea parties and so on. We'll see if anything changes. Me? I'll continue to work within the system to change it, by challenging laws I disagree with through the courts, voting every single election, working on and contributing to campaigns, and discussing politics with anyone willing to debate.
Yeah,that's working out so well. Keep on keeping on.
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." --Albert Einstein
Which can be excused Mr. Einstein since he died five years before the advent of chaos theory, as first put forward by Edward Lorenz. Dr. Lorenz demonstrated that in any non-linear system, the most minute adjustment can produce, given enough time, extraordinary change. This is known amongst the lay person as the "Butterfly Effect". Had Einstein seen this research, he would likely have regretted his statement, as the very act of trying something once will alter the environment in which it is tried the second time. A lack of immediate and obvious results does not mean there has been no change.
It has been said that the two basic tenets of the American vision are Liberty and Equality, and that perfect Liberty and perfect Equality are mutually exclusive. Whether you subscribe to one ideal or the other on any given issue, it is important to be open to the reasoning of others who may know something you do not. In 1807, Yale professor Benjamin Silliman reported seeing a falling meteorite, years before the existence of meteorites was accepted by the scientific community. Thomas Jefferson, upon hearing of the report, stated, "I would sooner believe that a Yankee professor would lie than that a stone would fall from heaven." Just because someone famous said something doesn't make it true.
Mike Ventrella
Duke
Duke Frost said:Fearless Leader said:Except, of course, he never said that. Some blogger did some years ago and everyone says it was Franklin.
Well, you guys go and complain and whine about the system and go to your tea parties and so on. We'll see if anything changes. Me? I'll continue to work within the system to change it, by challenging laws I disagree with through the courts, voting every single election, working on and contributing to campaigns, and discussing politics with anyone willing to debate.
Yeah,that's working out so well. Keep on keeping on.
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." --Albert Einstein
And your plans are? Bitch and complain on Bulletin Boards? Good luck with that.
Gee-Perwin
Adept
Fearless Leader said:Gee-Perwin said:
Except, of course, he never said that. Some blogger did some years ago and everyone says it was Franklin.
Well, you guys go and complain and whine about the system and go to your tea parties and so on. We'll see if anything changes. Me? I'll continue to work within the system to change it, by challenging laws I disagree with through the courts, voting every single election, working on and contributing to campaigns, and discussing politics with anyone willing to debate.
I don't honestly care who said it. A system where 51% of the people decide how to run the lives of 100% is by no means something I want to be a part of. The message is what matters.
The American project is a failure. The Constitution has failed. It was written to keep the government in check, but they do whatever they want. Mandating healthcare is not constitutional. Money backed by nothing is not constitutional. Global empire & undeclared wars are not constitutional. The drug war is not constitutional. D's & R's don't give a crap about the rules. They just fight over who gets to wield the power.
I'm not a part of the tea party movement. I don't even know what that means. I believe in freedom to own property, and the freedom to do whatever I want so long as I don't harm other people or their property. I believing in keeping all the fruits of my labor and doing with them what I choose. The government only believes in force. They pass ridiculous laws and expect the sheep to obey. If you don't follow their diktats they will lock you in a cage, steal your property, and destroy your family. They use fear to push people around. I know there are a lot of liberty people working within the system, and I am doing what I can to help. I just don't think real change will happen without civil disobedience. I look at groups like the Free State Project and wish I could move to New Hampshire. They are doing some amazing things up there.
Mike Ventrella
Duke
Gee, I just don't know how to respond. This is the way our government has always worked since it began. It's the way all democracies work. You're never going to get 100% approval on everything. A society needs to compromise and work together. The majority deciding (so long as the rights of the minority are protected) is the fairest system possible.
I consider myself a patriot. I love my country, but not unquestioningly, because often it's wrong. And that's why I work to make it better, in the ways mentioned above.
Seriously, are you advocating anarchy? It sure seems that way.
I'll never support that.
I consider myself a patriot. I love my country, but not unquestioningly, because often it's wrong. And that's why I work to make it better, in the ways mentioned above.
Seriously, are you advocating anarchy? It sure seems that way.
I'll never support that.
Mike Ventrella
Duke
Gee-Perwin
Adept
Anarchy isn't a moltov cocktail being thrown into a storefront, but I understand why a lot people are afraid of life without government. It's a hard thing to imagine. While a voluntary society is what I'd love to live in, I'd be happy if we went back to a constitutional government and reduced the role of government from there (Minarchy would be great, too). I certainly wouldn't be 100% happy, but it would be leaps and bounds better than what we have now.
The government used to have a sound currency. Now they don't, and they didn't even bother to amend the constitution. America was never supposed to be a global empire, but it is. To say the government has always worked like this since it started isn't entirely true. Sure, there were taxes and tariffs, but I won't believe for a second that the founding fathers imagined a world where 20% (or more for people who make a lot more money) of my paycheck is stolen from me. As I said before, I'd be really happy if we woke up tomorrow and there was a constitutional government in Washington. I just don't think that will ever happen on a federal level. You can't run on a platform like that any more. Someone like a Ron Paul is the exception to that, but it took him 30 years to be heard. That's just sad, but at least the message is getting out now.
I'd like to throw this out. I respect your right to believe in a cause--be it global warming & going green, healthcare for all, etc (just throwing a couple generic examples out, not actually stating my opinion on these specifically). I would never use force against you because we may disagree on something. I wouldn't send uniformed men with badges and guns to your house to throw you in jail because of our disagreements, or because you don't want to fund a different cause I feel is just. Will you in turn grant me the same respect? Will you not throw me in jail for not wanting to fund your views and policies that I feel are unjust? ("You" can be you personally or the government. Either will work, I guess.)
This is what I believe in. Is that so crazy?
The government used to have a sound currency. Now they don't, and they didn't even bother to amend the constitution. America was never supposed to be a global empire, but it is. To say the government has always worked like this since it started isn't entirely true. Sure, there were taxes and tariffs, but I won't believe for a second that the founding fathers imagined a world where 20% (or more for people who make a lot more money) of my paycheck is stolen from me. As I said before, I'd be really happy if we woke up tomorrow and there was a constitutional government in Washington. I just don't think that will ever happen on a federal level. You can't run on a platform like that any more. Someone like a Ron Paul is the exception to that, but it took him 30 years to be heard. That's just sad, but at least the message is getting out now.
I'd like to throw this out. I respect your right to believe in a cause--be it global warming & going green, healthcare for all, etc (just throwing a couple generic examples out, not actually stating my opinion on these specifically). I would never use force against you because we may disagree on something. I wouldn't send uniformed men with badges and guns to your house to throw you in jail because of our disagreements, or because you don't want to fund a different cause I feel is just. Will you in turn grant me the same respect? Will you not throw me in jail for not wanting to fund your views and policies that I feel are unjust? ("You" can be you personally or the government. Either will work, I guess.)
This is what I believe in. Is that so crazy?