Favorite editorial cartoons: December 2009

The constitution was written by the educated elite to protect the interests of the elite. That is why we have a bicameral legislature and an electoral college for the executive office. Attempting to reset the government and country to where they were during Washington's presidency would be to trade our current social issues for those of 250 years ago. Sooner or later, we would come back to the point where some portion of the citizenry would become frustrated enough with the situation to attempt to resolve it by force, and then we would have a civil war in a nuclear nation.

One issue I do have with our current government is the two-candidate two-party system, supported by the one vote per citizen system. It is not mathematically sound. Consider a hypothetical situation where there are four voting blocs, representing A 27%, B 26%, C 25% and D 22% of the electorate. Any two of A B and C can form a majority on any given issue. D, even as a bloc, will never affect the outcome of any vote. Thus D is a "dummy", and all its voters are marginalized.

A more equitable system is to grant each voter X votes per elected position, where X is the number of candidates for that position. Thus any given voter could spend all votes for a single candidate, or spread them around based on where their interests lie: 1 vote for the free market candidate, 2 votes for the education candidate, no votes for the pro-war candidate, and so on. Thus the candidate who best aligns with the electorate on the greatest number of issues will win. In this system, there is a vastly reduced chance of dummies, because people who belong to a minority on one issue will not necessarily be in the minority on others.

This also reduces the power of majority blocs. Imagine a voting body made up of nine people (like the Supreme Court!). In such a body, five voters united hold sufficient power to sway any decision. If all five meet before a decision is rendered and make their own decision as a smaller group, then they have marginalized the other four voters. If three of the five meet even earlier, and vote upon the issue amongst themselves, then they have marginalized the other two. If two of the three met still earlier, they can marginalize the other one. By this system of voting alliances, 2 people can determine the final outcome of nine voters on any issue they agree on. The many votes system reduces the efficacy of this sort of backroom politics by providing more options for the voters to be divided on.

As far refusing to fund policies you don't agree with, I will say this: I feel that a lower compulsory tax married to an increased incentive to donate additional money to the government that will be applied directly to a government agency that you wish to fund (such as defense, or education, or what have you) would be a more representative system. That said, I would not trust any system where every individual person is expected to contribute responsibly to the community without being removed from that community upon failure to do so. If you refuse to play by the rules, you should not be allowed in at all. I fully expect some of my tax dollars to fund things I don't personally agree with, but I feel that I have made a covenant with the American people to abide by the decisions of the majority in return for my rights as a citizen, foremost among them life, liberty, equality and my vote. I respect this because I do not trust that a violent minority, unchecked, would not deprive me of those rights.
 
Dan Nickname Beshers said:
The constitution was written by the educated elite to protect the interests of the elite. That is why we have a bicameral legislature and an electoral college for the executive office. Attempting to reset the government and country to where they were during Washington's presidency would be to trade our current social issues for those of 250 years ago. Sooner or later, we would come back to the point where some portion of the citizenry would become frustrated enough with the situation to attempt to resolve it by force, and then we would have a civil war in a nuclear nation.

I could comment on a lot of your post, but I want to focus directly on the constitution. You seem to sweep it under the rug as some type of outdated document. So why does every single politician, local and federal, as well as military member swear an oath to uphold the constitution? Aren't they breaking that oath when they refuse to have gold and silver backed currency, just to name an example? I want to see someone say here that the constitution is wrong, we don't need to amend it, and we can just continue ignoring it, because that's what I'm basically reading between the lines. You can focus exclusively on a sound currency or you can bring up someone else in the constitution that they completely ignore (undeclared wars). Why is it ok for the government to ignore things like this? Why should I keep paying into their system when they can't even keep their oath to uphold the constitution?
 
Gee-Perwin said:
Dan Nickname Beshers said:
The constitution was written by the educated elite to protect the interests of the elite. That is why we have a bicameral legislature and an electoral college for the executive office. Attempting to reset the government and country to where they were during Washington's presidency would be to trade our current social issues for those of 250 years ago. Sooner or later, we would come back to the point where some portion of the citizenry would become frustrated enough with the situation to attempt to resolve it by force, and then we would have a civil war in a nuclear nation.

I could comment on a lot of your post, but I want to focus directly on the constitution. You seem to sweep it under the rug as some type of outdated document. So why does every single politician, local and federal, as well as military member swear an oath to uphold the constitution? Aren't they breaking that oath when they refuse to have gold and silver backed currency, just to name an example? I want to see someone say here that the constitution is wrong, we don't need to amend it, and we can just continue ignoring it, because that's what I'm basically reading between the lines. You can focus exclusively on a sound currency or you can bring up someone else in the constitution that they completely ignore (undeclared wars). Why is it ok for the government to ignore things like this? Why should I keep paying into their system when they can't even keep their oath to uphold the constitution?

Who said it was OK?

The question here is not whether politicians are corrupt, or whether they are doing things they shouldn't do. The question is what do we do about it?

I haven't read anything you've posted that amounts to a plan. Instead it seems to be an abandonment of your responsibility to try to change things.
 
What responsibility do I have a document that was signed over 250 years ago? I didn't sign it or swear an oath to defend it, unlike these so called leaders who don't care either way. If you care so much about this system then start taking the constitutional side. Stop defending Obama's action in Afghanistan, which is an undeclared, unconstitutional war. Don't support unconstitutional fiat currency. Stop advocating for unconstitutional government run health care.

My plan is simple, and I mentioned it earlier. I will live my life without fear of government. I will work towards keeping all the fruits of my labors when I feel my children are old enough to take care of themselves so that they wouldn't be burdened if I were to be kidnapped and thrown in jail. I'll still support liberty candidates (they are a good way to get the message out), but I don't expect much change to happen within the system. I hope one day after the dollar collapses some states will just ignore the federal government and eventually succeed peacefully. Hopefully one of them will be a haven for liberty minded individuals. If & when that happens I will hopefully be in a position where I can move to such a place. If this doesn't happen in my lifetime, I'll keep on living my life without fear.
 
Gee-Perwin said:
What responsibility do I have a document that was signed over 250 years ago? I didn't sign it or swear an oath to defend it, unlike these so called leaders who don't care either way. If you care so much about this system then start taking the constitutional side. Stop defending Obama's action in Afghanistan, which is an undeclared, unconstitutional war. Don't support unconstitutional fiat currency. Stop advocating for unconstitutional government run health care.

My plan is simple, and I mentioned it earlier. I will live my life without fear of government. I will work towards keeping all the fruits of my labors when I feel my children are old enough to take care of themselves so that they wouldn't be burdened if I were to be kidnapped and thrown in jail. I'll still support liberty candidates (they are a good way to get the message out), but I don't expect much change to happen within the system. I hope one day after the dollar collapses some states will just ignore the federal government and eventually succeed peacefully. Hopefully one of them will be a haven for liberty minded individuals. If & when that happens I will hopefully be in a position where I can move to such a place. If this doesn't happen in my lifetime, I'll keep on living my life without fear.

Meanwhile, I will try to make a better world for myself and everyone else and not just give up and go into hiding.
 
Gee-Perwin said:
Fearless Leader said:
Meanwhile, I will try to make a better world for myself and everyone else and not just give up and go into hiding.

By using force.

You're advocating force? Treason against the government? Are you surprised to learn that I not only oppose you but will do everything I can to prevent that?

And if you do have a rebellion, you'll replace it with what?

See, I think our Constitution is pretty good. It's the people we elect who are the problem. So you work to get rid of the bad ones and keep the good ones.

It's like the Alliance rules system, which is pretty good. However, you get a bad gamemaster who is corrupt, gives favors to his friends, and doesn't care about the players and you'll have a terrible game no matter how good the rules are. Killing off the owner won't guarantee that the next one will be any better.
 
Reread my post. I advocate peace. I believe the federal government will fail (Which isn't treason, but you can call it that if you want. I really don't care.), but I don't think it will be as a result of violence. A violent revolution will only result in more tyranny. You can't fight this government with guns because you will lose. Killing people is the only thing they are good at doing. There are definitely liberty minded people who have that mindset of, "If they come for me, I'll take a couple of them out!" I am disturbed by this mind set because I know that his actions will only serve to reinforce government. He'll just be another crazy on the front page of the newspaper. We probably all know people like this and I feel that if you can't change their minds about using violence it is best to just distance yourself from them.

You still haven't explained why you think it's ok for unconstitutional stuff like undeclared wars and fiat currency, something 99% of politicians have been in support of for nearly a century (no declared war since WWII).
 
Gee-Perwin said:
Reread my post. I advocate peace. I believe the federal government will fail (Which isn't treason, but you can call it that if you want. I really don't care.), but I don't think it will be as a result of violence. A violent revolution will only result in more tyranny. You can't fight this government with guns because you will lose. Killing people is the only thing they are good at doing. There are definitely liberty minded people who have that mindset of, "If they come for me, I'll take a couple of them out!" I am disturbed by this mind set because I know that his actions will only serve to reinforce government. He'll just be another crazy on the front page of the newspaper. We probably all know people like this and I feel that if you can't change their minds about using violence it is best to just distance yourself from them.

OK, then I don't understand your comment about violence.

Gee-Perwin said:
You still haven't explained why you think it's ok for unconstitutional stuff like undeclared wars and fiat currency, something 99% of politicians have been in support of for nearly a century (no declared war since WWII).

Because I don't. Did you read what I wrote? I agree that the war is unconstitutional. I don't agree that the currency system is, nor do I agree that a health care plan would be. If you think they are, please explain to me how that can be, taking into consideration my limited understanding of the Constitution, being a lawyer and having taught Constitutional Law courses for over 20 years now.
 
Article 1, Section 10, Clause 1:

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
 
Gee-Perwin said:
Article 1, Section 10, Clause 1:

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

And if a State ever did so, then it would be unconstitutional. This clause does not apply to the Federal government.

Seriously, except for the Ron Paul followers out there, no one thinks going off the gold standard is unconstitutional. No courts, no Constitutional professors, no legal systems.
 
Hey, Gee, sorry if I came across harsh or snarky. One of my pet peeves is people who, whenever the government does something they don't like, claim that it's unconstitutional. "They're taxing soda! That's unconstitutional!" and so on. Bugs the heck out of me. Just because government does things we don't like doesn't mean they don't have the power to do so...
 
Mike, I don't think you understand why fiat currency is not only illegal but immoral. It's really not worth arguing over it with you when you yourself said you aren't too familiar with monetary policy or even fractional reserve banking. I could offer you up some fine books that show the history of money in this nation, especially from the views of the founding fathers. I could even post charts and whatever, but what's the point? I'll keep on trying to live my life as a sovereign individual, unafraid of the government bogeymen lurking around every corner. You keep counting on government to solve all the problems through force, theft, and counterfeit. If anyone is really interested in the message I'll be glad to share it, but it's a waste of time to talk about topics like this to those who don't want to hear about it.
 
I heard the new health care bill is going to put a 15% tax on all baklava sales to help pay for uninsured beekeepers.

Scott
 
Gee-Perwin said:
Mike, I don't think you understand why fiat currency is not only illegal but immoral. It's really not worth arguing over it with you when you yourself said you aren't too familiar with monetary policy or even fractional reserve banking. I could offer you up some fine books that show the history of money in this nation, especially from the views of the founding fathers. I could even post charts and whatever, but what's the point? I'll keep on trying to live my life as a sovereign individual, unafraid of the government bogeymen lurking around every corner. You keep counting on government to solve all the problems through force, theft, and counterfeit. If anyone is really interested in the message I'll be glad to share it, but it's a waste of time to talk about topics like this to those who don't want to hear about it.

Gee, I admit I don't know economics, as I have said here before.

I do know "legal" though, and seriously, I could understand such an argument if you would try to make it. I'll be glad to review your evidence.

Regarding the Founding Fathers, I admit to not being one of those who thinks that we should tie ourselves down, Amish-like, to whatever the prevailing thought was 250 years ago, especially since the Founding Fathers didn't agree unanimously on everything either. It's not like our FFs were gods, handing down a Constitution etched on tablets. Even the Constitution is full of compromises and purposely written vague sections, because it was the only way they could get it passed.

And as for government using force, well, yes, that's what all societies have done since the beginning of human history. That's how laws are enforced. They're not voluntary, and you can't choose which laws you want to follow and ignore the other ones. Fortunately, in America, we have some say in what those laws are, unlike many many other countries.
 
Fearless Leader said:
Robb Graves said:
Fearless Leader said:
They're not voluntary, and you can't choose which laws you want to follow and ignore the other ones.

hahahahahaimagrationhahahahaha good one mike.

Goodness, what a bunch of radicals I'm dealing with here! :D

Yes, radicals. Just like Rosa Parks, someone who clearly broke a law. Would you have arrested her?
 
I saw Mike go over the speed limit more than once.

Scott
 
Back
Top