Forget latex weapons; What about foam latex SHIELDS?

[GunFodder]

Huh, interesting information in this thread. I was not aware that repeated exposure to latex could cause a previously non-existant allergy to develop. Or, that coming into contact with it several times over a period of time can cause the allergic reaction to worsen.

I know that latex weapons are coated in a protective sealant, and obviously thousands of European larpers use them, but I can't help but rethink my views on latex weaponry. Iron Liege uses both cloth covered and non-latex rubber coatings for many of their weapons. I would assume that the same principle could be applied to shields.

Anyway, I'm still trying to find any information on the making of foam latex shields without injection foam moulding. I know that making these shields out of metal or wood may seem more accurate, but foam shields have less mass that may potentially slam into your face or get dropped on your foot. Plus, although it can be difficult to make intricate designs out of more traditional materials, you can make almost anything out of foam.

I know I could always make more shields out of insulation foam and duct tape, but it's hard to get excited about those shields. They just look so bland, and you're very limited in what you can do. My fiberglass shields were chicken wire and three layers of heavy automotive fiberglass, heavier than any other shields at my chapter. But the curve wraps around and protects me, and I tilted the top 4 inches forward so as to prevent blows from sliding or bouncing up into my face. It is, hands down, the best shield design I've ever seen in a larp. But when I tell people what I had to do to make it, they'd rather just pay me to make it for them. No thanks! I'd rather find friendlier materials and methods that everyone would want to use.

My biggest gripe is that these foam latex shield are often highly stylized with "Knights Templar", "Chaos Lord", "Eleven Prince", or other very specific designs. I find that I like a lot of these shields' physical appearance, but hate the paint jobs. I just wish that more of these companies would make a variety of BLANK shields designs that we can paint up ourselves.

They'd save time and money for themselves, and potentially sell more shields because of the reduced cost.

 

[markusdark]

Peanuts are not even on airplanes because this can be serious.

I still get peanuts on Southwest when I fly. I don't fly all the others carries as they're usually hundreds of dollars more expensive.

I've done research into the latex allergy angle of LARP weaponry because someone had brought it up a couple of years ago.

As others have stated, the latex is often covered in some sort of protective sealant. It helps to keep the weapon looking good as well as protect it from the UV rays and remove that ' no slip grip' that rubber gives you. As far as I know, latex weapons use the 'natural stuff' but it is possible that a couple of companies out there are using the petrol based stuff.

My understanding is that a latex allergy is something that needs to be developed over exposure (not like food allergies like peanuts). And that the allergy becomes progressively worse with the exposure. However, the exposure needed is very frequent and for long periods of time - such as healthcare workers with the rubber gloves, rubber industry workers, people who need to use rubber items for their daily work. The exposure of the contact of an uncoated latex weapon upon bare skin (remember that most people are usually clothed so that only hands and head are bare) is extremely mimimum - perhaps a half dozen 1/16th of a second contacts on an area smaller than a nickel over a 48 hour period. Yes, this amount could cause a reaction on someone who is hypersensitive to it but developing or progressing the allergy is all but impossible in this manner.

The latex dust you mention comes from the extension and then release of the rubber (aka the snap). This extrusion causes the molecules to 'break loose' and the snap sends them into the air With latex weaponry, for the most part, there is no 'snap'. Although there is give to the items, it is relatively very little and would cause quite a bit less of the dust, if any to be released. Even if it is uncoated, it would be painted and thus stop the dust from leaving the weapon. From what I have gleaned from my investigation, you are in more danger from rubber bands around the office or at other businesses (even if you don't use them) than you are with latex weaponry.

If someone who had a severe allergy to latex wished to play in a LARP that I ran that allowed latex weapons, I would first make sure that he knew the risk. If he was still interested, I would want to test his reaction to the weapon hitting the back of his hand a couple of times - with someone nearby in case of any trouble. If he STILL wished to play the game, I would then require him not only to inform me and my staff about medical issues but also to have him, and my staff, carry a Epi-pen around with them and be instructed on how to use them.

Although I am all for trying to accomodate everyone in recreatonal activities I also do not believe that a game should be molded around the needs of one person. In this case, if the person did not wish to be hit with latex weapons, he'd just not play my game.

 

[markusdark]

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Anyway, I'm still trying to find any information on the making of foam latex shields without injection foam moulding.

GF,

Although I have not tried this myself, it is technically possible. The first thing you need to do is find some sheets of high-density foam - even higher density than that of the camping mats or pipe insulation - and around half an inch thick. This stuff needs to be almost as rigid as a sheet of vineer wood. Then, you'll need to find a solid object that is just a bit more curved than the curve you want in the shield. I think that using an existing curved shield would not give enough curve to the shield for you.

Take your first piece of foam and tape it to the object (Let us say a 55 gallon drum). Note that these pieces should be square and about a foot bigger in all dimensions of the shield you want to create. Then apply liberally contact cement on the outside of this piece of foam and on another piece of foam. When tacky, slowly start at one side of the taped piece and lay the other sheet over it. Do not pull/stretch either sheet as this will deform the finished product.

Once this is done, take off the pieces from the object and see if it has the curve you want.

Next, trace out the shield shape you want and figure out where you'll want the strapping to be. Note, do NOT cut out the shield yet. Glue small pieces of fabric over these areas on the outside of the shield and then cut the strap holes through them. The fabric will help to stop the foam from tearing. I also would put some thin plastic between the two slits to help keep the straps from pulling towards one another and tearing the foam.

Replace the whole thing on your form object and glue a third sheet of the foam onto the outside of the shield. Now you should have an inch and a half thick shield with the strapping on it. Test the shield for flexibility. If it flexes too much, replace the item and add another layer of foam. If it is still flexing too much after two inches, then the foam was too flexible to begin with. Sorry, you just wasted your time.

Once the shield has cured for a day, then cut out the shape of the shield you want and go from there.

Note that you might be able to find some 'rigid' material to put between the foam pieces (such as thin plastic or even cardboard) but do realize that anything that wants to return to straight may deform the shield, especially when it is cut out.

On a side note, I have made some rather durable LARP shields out of three layers of currogated cardboard and lots of glue.



The

 

[Jevedor]

just to comment on the whole allergy thing.

I have a severe peanut and nut allergy, to the point where I can not be in the room with an open can/jar of peanut butter... so I know where you are coming from WhoDunIt. Any time i have ever had concerns with my allergy i have simply talked to the people that run the chapter i plan on attending and they have always been as helpful and respectful as they can. I'm sure if you have a latex allergy especially a severe one they would accommodate for you.

however I don't think you should be blowing up at people and claiming that they don't know anything. People aren't going to generally listen to hostile tones, and will in fact probably react with sarcasm which will only spiral the debate into uninformative arguing.

On a complete side note, in regards to peanuts on planes. Yes peanuts can still be on planes. However, the airline is required to inform any passengers if they will be serving them, or in the very least they must provide this information about the flight in writing in a location where a concerned passenger can easily find it, much like allergy info on the back of a food product.. (this flight may contain peanuts and is manufactured in the same facility as other tree nuts... :lol: ). Many airlines avoid this by simply not serving them. I for one can fly on planes that do because siting next to someone eating peanuts on a plane would be a health risk. As is such it is my responsibility to check with the airline before i fly. it is their responsibility to provide that information.

Also any allergy can be developed for repeated exposure to the allergen, not just latex. Also any allergy can become more severe in this method. Interestingly enough an allergy can become less severe through simple allergic reactions as well. Hence allergy shots. The shot gives you a small dose of what you are allergic to but not so much to cause a severe allergic reaction. It allows the body to become accustom to the allergen and hopefully develop a stronger immunity over time. Although allergy shots will not work in all cases .. it depends on the severity of the original allergy.

 

[GunFodder]

(Some very helpful ideas)

Thanks for the great info, man! Once this rediculously busy month is over, I'll find some time to try it out. Also, I recently read in some larp forum a suggestiom that involved heating the foam with water, and then forming it around an object. I was also thinking about using a spray foam adhesive that I bought from the Ace hardware store. I was making a flat-blade sword with it, and by God that stuff works!

I wonder, should I even try latexing it, or should I just cover it in duct tape? Hmmm, you know, I made my first fiberglass shield by wetting cardboard, forming it around a large stone piller, and then stapling fiberglass cloth to it. I bet I could use a curved carboard layer to add some rigidity to it.

My problem with the original shield was that fiberglass cloth, while easier to handle and apply, didn't provide the same strength as fiberglass mat, which I used for my second shield. But THAT shield didn't look as nice (I ended up covering it in vinyl), since the mat was less consistent and harder to work with.

I suppose I could make my first shield again, and then glue the closed-cell foam on top of it, making for a very safe shield that can be latexed. But that seems like a LOT of money and effort. It would be nice to find a method that could be easy and effective enough to be included in a future rulebook, but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm still hoping some entrepreneur will make affordable foam shield blanks that players can paint up and personalize. Maybe I'll write some latex weapon makers and see what I get.

Anyway, thanks again Markus!

 

[markusdark]

As an FYI, what I have done in the past with latex shields (and you're right, they're all stylized it seems) is that I would find one that would have an almost invisible profile/design (such as the crusader's cross styles) and then simply sew a shield cover for it (a lot like a mattress cover with elastic around the edge of it). That way, I would just slip on whatever device I needed. It really helps with logistics/NPC's as you can change an entire regiment's coat of arms with just a dozen "pillow cases".

I also made tabards with velcro on the front so that all I had to do was change the coat of arms and peel that on and off as well. It REALLY saved time, money AND storage space. You could have 100 'different' tabards and store them in the same space it would take to store a dozen.