Formal request for playtest cycle extension

T

Tevas

Scholar
Marshal
Owners and ARC,

I would like to formally request an extension to the end date of this playtest cycle. Given the substantial amount of content introduced in the 0.9 playtest packet, particularly in regard to the Paragon Paths, I do not feel a single playtest would provide sufficient opportunity to thoroughly evaluate the performance, balance, and playability of this additional content. In order to ensure that all involved chapters have the ability to coordinate multiple playtests of necessary size, it is my hope that we can extend the current playtest cycle window by an additional 30 to 60 days. If we are unable to do so, I am not confident that we will receive reliable and actionable data on the robust additions that this playtest packet has introduced. I appreciate your consideration of this request, and hope that we can work together to arrive at a mutually beneficial set of playtest cycle dates.


Thank you

Chris Fernandez
Alliance LARP Playtest Community Manager
Alliance San Francisco Playtest Coordinator
 
I would request that you just change the name of the game from Alliance to something else since it's no longer the same game.

This is a serious post, by the way. Even calling it "2.0" isn't sufficient to cover the sheer magnitude of changes made with these rules.
 
Avaran said:
I would request that you just change the name of the game from Alliance to something else since it's no longer the same game.

This is a serious post, by the way. Even calling it "2.0" isn't sufficient to cover the sheer magnitude of changes made with these rules.
Click to expand...

That's a wee bit of hyperbole.
 
Ruki said:
That's a wee bit of hyperbole.
Click to expand...

Before I comment, I just want to say that I'm not trying to crap on anyone's hard work. I know how hard Bryan and others have worked to not only write these rules, but to get them voted on and approved for testing by the owners. I know and I wholly appreciate all of the countless hours of work they have all put into this. I just feel it's too much, certainly all at once. My preference would be just to implement the Magic Item change, maybe clean up some of the effect groups and redundant effects, and then give it a year or two to play out.

Now, that said, I will defend my statement as being more than just hyperbole. This is based on the premise that games are defined by their rules.

The basic flavor of the game is changing:
--One of the coolest signature lines in "Prepare to Die" is gone.
--Fighter special attacks now only get 1 swing (drastic change).
--The awesome sounding spell "Dragon's Breath" is out. (There's just something about yelling "I call forth a Dragon's Breath!")
--PC constant damage is being cut by more than 50% at the top end.
--Monster HP and its scaling is supposed to be changing, as are what various monsters are effected by. This equates to a whole new monster DB with all-new baseline monsters.
-----Can you tell me what an Ancient Vampire is going to be like? How about a Death Knight?

Basic, fundamental mechanics are changing across the board.
Every single spell incant is changing.
Magic Items, while they still exist, have a completely different philosophy, and therefore are completely different. (I happen to really like this change)
The Flurry rule will absolutely change how combat runs/flows.
Paragon Paths are a completely new mechanic/concept to the game.
Building a character is fundamentally different.
--I can no longer easily build a character using just a single sheet of paper.
The XP into BP system has been changed.
---Slightly less related, the term "BP" has been replaced with just "XP"
There are now "verbal-less" skills! Fundamentally against what the game is now (i.e. when one uses a necro swing to steal life, there's no call for it - they just call damage and nobody knows/sees that they just healed for 200 points). You want to talk about a nightmare for Marshaling/tracking.
--related, you can now HEAL FROM WEAPON SWINGS that aren't spell strikes.
Evade is mechanically different.
--Speaking of, LOTS of on-the-fly mental math for various classes to keep track of ...

And these are just the changes I can think off the top of my head.

If these aren't fundamentally different from what we play right now, and constitute an entirely different and new game, I don't know what does.

If you gave these rules to someone who didn't know better, I very much doubt anyone would say "Alliance rules!"

I've been playing the game for more than 15 years now. For me, these are drastic, catastrophic, from-the-ground-up whole-new-game rules.
 
I would argue that 90% of those changes improve the game for the better. If games don't evolve and change, they will eventually stagnate and die.

The one I do agree with is the verbal-less swings. I don't really care for that, but will gladly accept it for the more positive changes (easier spell incants, a much better magic item system, less huge numbers for damage and HP, paragon, etc.. .)
 
Ruki said:
I would argue that 90% of those changes improve the game for the better.
Click to expand...

My point in this specific thread has nothing to do with whether or not the changes are good or bad, better or worse; rather that they change the complexion, make-up, and construction of the game so much, that it should be called something else.

A discussion on the scope of changes and what you or I (or anyone else) think about them should be done in another thread though, I think. Cause I have a feeling we could go back and forth on spell incant changes (I hate them), and many other changes.
 
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Avaran said:
I would request that you just change the name of the game from Alliance to something else since it's no longer the same game.

This is a serious post, by the way. Even calling it "2.0" isn't sufficient to cover the sheer magnitude of changes made with these rules.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I am not empowered in any fashion to implement these requested changes. While your request certainly is not without supporting observations to reinforce it, as you have listed above, it is not necessarily aligned with the subject matter of the original request. As you have stated, your response is indeed a serious post. I feel it may receive better mileage as its own thread, to ensure that each subject is discussed independently. This will allow both items to benefit from more direct discussions. Regardless, I absolutely appreciate your willingness to discuss difficult or controversial topics or viewpoints, so as to ensure that our end product is as outstanding as it can be.


Thank you

Chris Fernandez
Alliance LARP Playtest Community Manager
Alliance San Francisco Playtest Coordinator
 
I heartily support the request for an extension of play test time for these Paragon paths. The amount of content in them is very high to play test in the current period.
 
Avaran said:
The basic flavor of the game is changing:
--One of the coolest signature lines in "Prepare to Die" is gone.
--Fighter special attacks now only get 1 swing (drastic change).
--The awesome sounding spell "Dragon's Breath" is out. (There's just something about yelling "I call forth a Dragon's Breath!")
--PC constant damage is being cut by more than 50% at the top end.
--Monster HP and its scaling is supposed to be changing, as are what various monsters are effected by. This equates to a whole new monster DB with all-new baseline monsters.
-----Can you tell me what an Ancient Vampire is going to be like? How about a Death Knight?
Click to expand...

--One of the coolest signature lines in "Ward up" / "Ward down" is gone.
--Fighter special attacks now mimic spells in various ways
--The classic spell "Magic Missile" is out. (There's just something about yelling "I call forth a Magic Missile" at the darkness)
--Magic Key, Detect Magic, and Pin Undead are also disappearing.
--You can no longer have up to three buff spells on your spirit at a time and then activate them as you need them.
--PC constant damage for two weapon users and two-handed weapons users is massively increasing.
--Classic effects like Drain Life are gone and effects like Disease are massively changed.
--Monster HP and its scaling is supposed to be changing, as are what various monsters are affected by. This equates to a whole new monster DB with all-new baseline monsters.
--Can you tell me what an Ancient Vampire is going to be like? How about a Death Knight?

Basic, fundamental mechanics are changing across the board.
Every single spell incant is changing.
Magic Items, while they still exist, have a completely different philosophy, and therefore are completely different. (I happen to really like this change)
The Flurry rule will absolutely change how combat runs/flows.
Paragon Paths are a completely new mechanic/concept to the game.
Building a character is fundamentally different.
--I can no longer easily build a character using just a single sheet of paper.
The XP into BP system has been changed.
---Slightly less related, the term "BP" has been replaced with just "XP"
There are now "verbal-less" skills! Fundamentally against what the game is now (i.e. when one uses a necro swing to steal life, there's no call for it - they just call damage and nobody knows/sees that they just healed for 200 points). You want to talk about a nightmare for Marshaling/tracking.
--related, you can now HEAL FROM WEAPON SWINGS that aren't spell strikes.
Evade is mechanically different.
--Speaking of, LOTS of on-the-fly mental math for various classes to keep track of ...

And these are just the changes I can think off the top of my head.

If these aren't fundamentally different from what we play right now, and constitute an entirely different and new game, I don't know what does.

If you gave these rules to someone who didn't know better, I very much doubt anyone would say "Alliance rules!"

I've been playing the game for more than 15 years now. For me, these are drastic, catastrophic, from-the-ground-up whole-new-game rules.
Click to expand...

Every single spell incant is changing. Some spells had their names changed completely.
Some spells are now in celestial when they were in earth or vice versa.
Magic items, while they still exist, are completely different.
New weapon construction rules (specifically that allow ultra-lights) will absolutely change how combat flows/runs.
So will the new packet archery rules.
Body damage no longer interrupts a spell incant, which also massively affects the flow of combat.
High magic abilities ALSO absolutely change how combat runs.
Wands are a completely new mechanic / concept to the game (as is both high magic and the new classes of artisan, adept, and scout)
Armor no longer deteriorates as it is damaged, eventually getting destroyed
Fluid classes are also a completely new mechanic / concept.
Building a character is fundamentally different.
Players no longer have to turn in silver at the end of a module, game day, or weekend in order to get a full experience award.

And these are just the changes that I can remember since I started playing the game. I'm sure I have missed some big ones because there have been so many major rules changes over the years.

If the stuff I am talking about isn't fundamentally different from what we play now, and constitutes a different game, I don't what does.

If you gave the current rules to a player in 1993, I very much doubt they would say "NERO rules!" (Alliance now)

I have been playing the game for 24 years now. These new rules are no more drastic from-the-ground-up whole-new-game rules than any of the previous major changes. The core is still the same. Look closely at my examples above (which I chose to mostly mirror yours). You'd be lost trying to play the game I first played (single-handed profs, massively different spell list, no high magic, spell incants broken by body damage, degrading armor, real bow archery, ward keys, etc.). But while it may have been an odd (and sometimes rough) transition at times, we adapted as players without much difficulty.

-MS
 
I'd like to note that the game name did change once already, from NERO to Alliance, and after most of the changes you described were instituted, a fact you yourself noted in your own post.

mikestrauss said:
If you gave the current rules to a player in 1993, I very much doubt they would say "NERO rules!" (Alliance now)
Click to expand...

While your point is still totally valid, most of the subsequent changes were done a little bit at a time. A handful of changes here, some there. The major ones were done 1-3 at a time, if that, most with multiple years in between.

This time everything changing, all at once, which I think should eventually lead to a name change (again). Doesn't mean it will happen, obviously. :)

mikestrauss said:
(single-handed profs, massively different spell list, no high magic, spell incants broken by body damage, degrading armor, real bow archery, ward keys, etc.).
Click to expand...

I played while most of these were still a thing - I had Left and Right-handed profs at one point myself, went to great lengths to not allow my armor to breach, and even remember the long-ago with no High Magic. I never played with real bow archery though. :(
 
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Please remember to try to keep things civil -- this is fast approaching talking-down-at and insult-laden territory, if not already there in some cases.

Not a moderator. Just observant on perceived tone.
 
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