Gypsy Job question

J

jquest716

Newbie
So I have a question and I am not 100% sure where this would fall so here it is (mind you I'm very new), if I was to take craftsman and want to put in tarot card read would that work? Also if I were to want could I read tarot cards at events or would that be breaking the religion rule but seeing how tarot cards deal with general fate and not specifically one faith but I could see how people might not like it. I only mention this because I learned how to read them from my mother and her mother taught her so its not like I am just doing this blindly and I wanted to work in the tarot cards into my gypsy character background. So any help on clarifying this would be awesome. Thanks for your help, J.
 
I would not use them due to the religious reason you mentioned. Speaking from personal experience, I tried using them with my PC, but was asked by another player OOG (Out of Game) to not have them at games, and that player was very kind and understanding in explaining the religious significance of the cards. Going with Alliance's no religion rule, see if you can find another method of fortune telling.
 
I use them without problem. They have served well a one of the many methods of divination my character uses. No one has ever brought up a problem with it to me either ig or oog,but if they did, I would definitely be mindful of their concerns.

As someone fit who the cards have a religious meaning oog, I can also comfortably state that Tarot cards are not exclusively a religious symbol. Plenty of people, both in the past and present use them with no religious context, as opposed to something like a cross (which is fairly exclusively religious).

Personally, I would suggest finding a deck that was not a Rider-Waite deck (as that is the most commonly religiously associated deck), and talk to your local plot or Marshall team.
 
you can do the tarot card conversion to a normal playing deck.
takes practice, but I had a friend 20 years ago that was quite adept.
 
If you want to divine the future but stay clear of possible taboo go with runes. But I personally would say tarot cards should be okay just be open if someone gives you feedback, and if someone asks you OOG to not use them anymore just ask plot to be able to change the CO to reading runes or just divination.
 
Tarot cards have a rich background and considering they were originally used as playing cards and eventually were picked up by fortune tellers and "psychics" (which really isn't a religion) I would say you are fine. A lot of characters already use them. We already have a number of religious themes and what not in the game, we can't possibly avoid them all. This falls into the oversensitive category in my humble opinion. Claiming that tarot cards belong to any one religion is like saying you can't eat crackers or drink fruit juice (wine) because they are used in communion.

Telling the future isn't religion. If that's the case then we need to remove magic from the game.

Runes are far more religious than tarot cards since they have been used in actual pagan rituals.
 
I don't see a problem. Let's not read the "no religion" rule so strictly that we prohibit 90% of the game.

After all, golems and unicorns are in the Bible; Jesus resurrected people; Zeus threw lightning bolts; pagans believe in the power of the living earth -- you see where I'm going with this. It's impossible to completely separate mythology from religion, and fantasy from mythology.

The "no religion" rule refers mostly to avoiding gods and worship of them. No churches or temples or clerics.
 
Exactly. You can't start a cult and have them worship something IG. Tarot cards are a-ok, at least in the two chapters I play in. We have multiple characters who use them.
 
OrcFighterFTW said:
I would not use them due to the religious reason you mentioned. Speaking from personal experience, I tried using them with my PC, but was asked by another player OOG (Out of Game) to not have them at games, and that player was very kind and understanding in explaining the religious significance of the cards. Going with Alliance's no religion rule, see if you can find another method of fortune telling.
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Since I'm a "Big know it All" degree holder in Anthropology, I've heard several people talk about the religious significance of using any kind of divination. And after getting to many, many long discussions about exactly what parts were this or that - Mostly, because of the problem of certain religious practices of absorbing traditions, rites, and such from just about everywhere for the greatest acceptance by widest audience or popular culture. Assigning things as "religious" quickly became as tedious as tracing your family all the way back to the beginnings of mankind.

Thus, I've come to think that alliance players should look at these things from the stand point of where they fall in the "stepping stones" of historical development of beliefs. IE - Myth, Magic, then Religion. First, there came the belief in myths (Heroes like Hercules), and those slowly developed into the belief of magic of various kinds (for example, if a farmer buries fish before he plants he will reap more the next harvest), and then those beliefs evolved even more, into Religion (there is divine spirits, etc) .

Thus, when we look at that way, all divination falls into the realm of Magic, before religion. And therefore isn't strictly prohibited.
 
I only mean to say that if another player says "that thing you are doing is part of my out of game religion, and I kindly request that you not do it here" or words to that effect, that is pretty much the heart of the no religion rule.
 
OrcFighterFTW said:
I only mean to say that if another player says "that thing you are doing is part of my out of game religion, and I kindly request that you not do it here" or words to that effect, that is pretty much the heart of the no religion rule.
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Where do we draw the line then? If I were to say elves are a major part of my religion, would you ban elves in your chapter? Or marriage is a major part of my religion and any marriage not under god is incredibly insulting, so no marriage? Or you can't wear a sun on your outfit because I worship the sun god Ra, so no suns? Or your character's name is John, which is the name of an apostle, so you can't name your character that. Or I believe in magic and spells, using them in Alliance is a mockery of my religion.

I get not allowing someone to dress like a nun, wear a blatant religious symbol, worship a deity, or build a church but using something used by multiple cultures and beliefs is a bit too far, IMO.

Disclaimer: none of the above examples represent my belief system, I have none.
 
If one of those ridiculous slippery slope situations come up, I'm sure the players and chapter staff can handle it. If somebody is actually made uncomfortable by the use of tarot, I don't really see an issue with them asking someone else not to use tarot in-game. If the person using it wants to continue, they can deal with it on an OOG level. Let people handle it on a case-by-case basis when it actually comes up.
 
KyleSchmelz said:
If one of those ridiculous slippery slope situations come up, I'm sure the players and chapter staff can handle it. If somebody is actually made uncomfortable by the use of tarot, I don't really see an issue with them asking someone else not to use tarot in-game. If the person using it wants to continue, they can deal with it on an OOG level. Let people handle it on a case-by-case basis when it actually comes up.
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Admittedly some of the above examples are outlandish but many people believe some of them. I would be careful what you call ridiculous. I have friends and family that believe some of the above examples...
 
If they are that offended by magic and elves, then they are probably not playing our game in the first place.
 
I will just have to respectfully disagree with tarot is a violation of the no religion rule. The what violates the no religion thing gets brought up a lot on these boards and there will never be a hard line. Everyone on here has an opinion. That's what makes this community awesome. This is just one of those issues that I would personally not call religion, nor would I ever agree to ban it in my chapter but I am not the final authority on that (woo for not being an owner, that's way too much responsibility).
 
evi1r0n said:
I will just have to respectfully disagree with tarot is a violation of the no religion rule. The what violates the no religion thing gets brought up a lot on these boards and there will never be a hard line. Everyone on here has an opinion. That's what makes this community awesome. This is just one of those issues that I would personally not call religion, nor would I ever agree to ban it in my chapter but I am not the final authority on that (woo for not being an owner, that's way too much responsibility).
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Maybe I'm just misinterpreting what you said, but it seems contradictory: You claim that it "violates the no religion rule", but say it is "just one of those issues that [you] would personally not call religion".
 
I think you are misinterpreting - he disagrees that it violates the rule.
 
KyleSchmelz said:
I think you are misinterpreting - he disagrees that it violates the rule.
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Yep. I don't think it violates the rule. I could have been a bit more clear, I worded it kinda weird.
 
I know this is a touchy subject for a lot of people, and I mean no disrespect to anyone. I just wanted to preface my reply with that! :)

I think tarot cards should not be used. Let's be honest, the only reason you asked about this is because you realized that some people could take the use of tarot cards religiously. If you did not think there was a religious connection, it wouldn't even be a question. I'm a firm believer in the "better safe than sorry" method when it comes to this rule. If you think something is part of a religion, don't use it in-game.

For example, I thought it would be cool to give my character a cross-shaped scar. But you know what? I'm not doing it because it's possible that someone could take it offensively, and the whole point of the game is that everyone can be included and not have to worry about being offended. In-game we avoid religion, real racism, and sexual assault for that reason. All characters are created equal! :) (Well, kinda. You know what I mean! :p)

I just don't think it's fair to not allow major religious symbols while saying other things are okay. It would freak me out if someone tried reading tarot on my character. I would, at the very least, go out-of-game and ask them to stop. (The cards don't know you're in-game. They're reading your out-of-game fortune.) And it doesn't matter if people agree about it or not. The point is that, to some people, tarot is real and religious. Whether people like it or dislike it, it's better to just not offend someone.

Besides, there are other methods of fortune telling that are obviously fake that you can use. Make something up. Spin around in a circle and hum. Put your palm out in front of someone's face and touch your temple with your other hand. Jump around in the dirt while singing the character's name then inspect your footprints. Or even make a set of ten fake cards and put a triangle on one, a squiggle on the second, a circle on the third, etc. I mean, really. This is LARP. We're acting. It's not MEANT to be real.

No one is saying don't be a fortune teller. Just do it in a way that does not use methods of fortune telling that exist in reality. :)

(Also, if someone asked me not to wear a sun on my armor because they worship Ra, I would change my armor. Just saying.)
 
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