[.11] Higher Manifestation /Cross School

jwconvery

Spellsword
We should update the wording on Higher Manifestation so it is more clear that you cannot use HM granted from Earth Formal to channel Celestial without a wand. (or vice Versa)

Unless that is the intent, in which case I think that is silly, but the packet is worded fine.

-Joe
 
I was thinking 80-90 XP or a 9th level spell.

I was thinking 150-180 XP or a 9th level spell for the secondary school.

Just so that it makes it hard on Spellswords and adepts to dual school (but not impossible). But, is kind of a bit more natural for scholars, while still requiring a pretty pure scholar build to hit.

Otherwise you'll have every adept and spellsword swinging earth and an elemental flavor. Forcing the xp investment means they'll be able to get into both formal later in the game, and have to have less martial/stealth skills.
 
that would be good, people would have the option to be a full channeling / formal caster if that is what they want.
 
I was thinking 80-90 XP or a 9th level spell.

I was thinking 150-180 XP or a 9th level spell for the secondary school.

Just so that it makes it hard on Spellswords and adepts to dual school (but not impossible). But, is kind of a bit more natural for scholars, while still requiring a pretty pure scholar build to hit.

Otherwise you'll have every adept and spellsword swinging earth and an elemental flavor. Forcing the xp investment means they'll be able to get into both formal later in the game, and have to have less martial/stealth skills.

So, I’m gonna disagree with the double-XP for dual school, but hear me out.

If we gate formal behind XP, why should a non-hybrid Scholar find it harder to access a secondary school for Formal than an Adept or Spellsword would find accessing their primary Formal?

I mean, I personally think we need to break Scholar into two different classes and have a true Dual hybrid (called the Warlock, naturally). But that’s not something that is currently being discussed.

So, until that time, the only real dual hybrid is just a scholar who invests in both schools. So, if it’s 90 XP for their primary, it should be 90 XP <in the appropriate school> for their secondary.

Unless we want to start talking about making XP gates dependent on your class, of course...
 
I agree Channeling buffs should not be behind HM, and thus 9th level spells.

I do not agree that Formal magic should be accessible without a 9th.

I just want confirmation on Higher Manifestation.
 
I agree. I feel that Formal should be gated by XP (something like 75 XP) and not 9ths.

This was something proposed by the crafting committee in order to open formal casting to artisans. The XP requirements were set at the exact same as they are now through traditional 9th gating. This proposal was declined.
 
This was something proposed by the crafting committee in order to open formal casting to artisans. The XP requirements were set at the exact same as they are now through traditional 9th gating. This proposal was declined.

That is a shame, would have been pretty nifty for channelers to have this option
 
Maybe some moderator would be kind enough to split this thread.

So, I’m gonna disagree with the double-XP for dual school, but hear me out.

If we gate formal behind XP, why should a non-hybrid Scholar find it harder to access a secondary school for Formal than an Adept or Spellsword would find accessing their primary Formal?

I mean, I personally think we need to break Scholar into two different classes and have a true Dual hybrid (called the Warlock, naturally). But that’s not something that is currently being discussed.

So, until that time, the only real dual hybrid is just a scholar who invests in both schools. So, if it’s 90 XP for their primary, it should be 90 XP <in the appropriate school> for their secondary.

Unless we want to start talking about making XP gates dependent on your class, of course...

I think you misunderstood me. I'm not suggesting we add a Celestial Scholarly skills and Earth Scholarly Skills. I'm suggesting purely scholarly skills. Like how improved channeling works. Right now it's what 227 build for a 9th in each?

At 140/150 you'd actually be able to cut in quite a bit earlier. If you wanted to play an earth caster with celestial formal, you'd have the option after 140 in your primary school. If you just wanted to play a formal caster you could be a neutral ritual caster pretty easily. If you wanted to focus entirely on creating things, you could buy create potion and scroll until you had the preqs met.

My concern is that being able to swing healing is really good and I'd prefer that templars who can benefit from it the most having a hard time reaching across their primary school so not every templar is swinging healing and flame bloating damage. And kind of keeping Earth Templars and Celestial Templars a unique.
 
Maybe some moderator would be kind enough to split this thread.



I think you misunderstood me. I'm not suggesting we add a Celestial Scholarly skills and Earth Scholarly Skills. I'm suggesting purely scholarly skills. Like how improved channeling works. Right now it's what 227 build for a 9th in each?

At 140/150 you'd actually be able to cut in quite a bit earlier. If you wanted to play an earth caster with celestial formal, you'd have the option after 140 in your primary school. If you just wanted to play a formal caster you could be a neutral ritual caster pretty easily. If you wanted to focus entirely on creating things, you could buy create potion and scroll until you had the preqs met.

My concern is that being able to swing healing is really good and I'd prefer that templars who can benefit from it the most having a hard time reaching across their primary school so not every templar is swinging healing and flame bloating damage. And kind of keeping Earth Templars and Celestial Templars a unique.

Ah, got it. I guess I misunderstood you because it would seem pretty weird to me to have access to Celestial Formal without even needing Read Magic, so I interpreted it differently. My bad.
 
This was something proposed by the crafting committee in order to open formal casting to artisans. The XP requirements were set at the exact same as they are now through traditional 9th gating. This proposal was declined.

We should definitely make sure a lot of people are aware of this and provide ample feedback.

The players have a voice, and should exercise it liberally. :)
 
You'd probably want to gate keep it with prereqs a 1st level spell or the preqs. The thing about having a nice(ish) website to handle character building is, we can get a big more complex with it.
 
You'd probably want to gate keep it with prereqs a 1st level spell or the preqs. The thing about having a nice(ish) website to handle character building is, we can get a big more complex with it.

Wouldn’t need it. All of the repeatable scholar skills are already gated behind having at least a 1st level slot.
 
This was something proposed by the crafting committee in order to open formal casting to artisans. The XP requirements were set at the exact same as they are now through traditional 9th gating. This proposal was declined.

Since we've been owners, nothing about this has gone to a vote (for the past 2 years and change). Sooo somewhere along the way parts got killed.
 
ARC declined the proposal. There are certain things I saw about it that could use some polishing. I'd be happy to do so and resubmit if there's interest.
 
I know I have interest in that. Even if it was just rituals and not high magic. I play an artisan and that’s been something I was hoping for in the new system.
 
I know I have interest in that. Even if it was just rituals and not high magic. I play an artisan and that’s been something I was hoping for in the new system.

Agreed. It seems very fitting for artisans to have access to formal without the need to stack battle magic, given their emphasis on production and crafting. I can't see any real game balance issues stemming from it given that it just means characters that are most often not very combat focused get set up to be resources for formal casting, which gives them another way to have useful interactions with players that aren't entirely gated on combat ability.

Edit: Heck, just allow access based on Crafting xp and require them to pick a primary school or limit them to general rits.
 
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Just have it based on Scholary XP and have potion making and scroll making count. that will guarantee that said artisan will have a primary school anyway (from spells or pre-reqs for making potions/scrolls) This keeps it in line with Fighter/Rogue skills.
 
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