House Rules

jwconvery said:
Dreamingfurther said:
Also, having what some people call "battle boards" to help remember what you have left and have used for the day is fine. But it is important to use tags to back that up. As tags are harder to "accidentally cheat" with. Cause if you use and rip a tag, then its not there anymore so clearly you don't have the skill anymore.

Per the rulebook tags are required for everyone for every event. Tags can be written differently and often are in different chapters that's fine. Using things other than tags to help keep track of everything is also fine, but tags are required everywhere.
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I don't follow how tags are harder to 'accidentally cheat' with. If you are not a dirty cheater, and just made a mistake over casting a spell, it's just as easy to realise this off a battle board then a tag ring. If the arguement is 'well you might forget to mark off your sheet' that holds true for both. You can forget to pull a tag. It just seems a one stop shop for effects is easier to look over and mark everything, then flipping through a tag ring one at a time. If you ARE a dirty cheater, either system seems pretty easy to circumvent the system.
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Here is how tags are easier to 'accidentally cheat' with. If you are asked to produce tags for 3 slays (out of 4) that you used and you give them over and they are ripped then latter if you slay 3 more times and you are asked to produce those tags you will only have 1 tag left, and your in trouble. However if you are just crossing off boxes on the battle board, by the time you are asked to produce proof of your slays you can say "oh I already checked those off just now". It is a lot easier to do this, than it is to go to all the effort to carry "extra" paper tags. While I realize that this small difference is what I just called it, small, it does still exist.

That said for the record I have no issue with battle boards. However as others have said you can only use those to supplement tags.

jwconvery said:
If tags can be written differently, is it 'illegal', or owners choice, to use a battle board chapter wide and just explain it's use, if someone doesn't know?

-Joe
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As per the rulebook tags formatting can be slightly altered. However you need to have some separate physical piece of paper that you can trip off for each skill, such as tags. So you can't just 'decide' to use battle boards instead of tags chapter wise. That's not following the raw of the rulebook.
 
A PC can carry empty gas globes... why can't an NPC? And who's to say the monster isn't capable of producing a substance that will nauseate/feeblemind/paralyze a victim? And there is a way to say "everything you have that isn't a magic item is broken." It's called an explosive trap, and sometimes LCO acid or massive effects. Adding more production destroying effects or requirements in the game would be a PR issue... but can't you suspend your disbelief and think that a random undead drops all his nausea poison when he crumbles to dust, and the act of dropping it pops the globe but you don't suffer the same misfortune?

There has been so much debate about tags vs battle boards, but for now, if you want faster logistics pre-reg and pre-logist. And it's just as easy to cheat with either system if you want to play at an unfair advantage.

99 times out of 100 when I go out as a benny people just keep a tag they should have ripped, and I vouch for the existance of the spell I cast. I ask people if they need a tag for blah protective/spellstore item, and if they need it, I go get one and give it to them.

I'm a firm believer in keeping game running at a pace that entertains (or scares the crap out of) the PCs. I don't think slowing down the turnaround in monster camp or potentially altering treasure policy creation and distribution to make sure there's enough production to send out on the NPCs would benefit the game as a whole. Would that mean every gas/scroll/elixer that went out would be useable by the NPC carrying it, and if they did it was burned? Because there goes the production portion of the treasure policy!

I'm not trying to be inflammatory, but while the system may have it's faults, the ripples of trying to "fix it" would require changes in lots of the basic statting and treasuring methods, resulting in a shift in what was needed for treasure in a weekend, and especially over a season!
 
Dreamingfurther said:
Here is how tags are easier to 'accidentally cheat' with. If you are asked to produce tags for 3 slays (out of 4) that you used and you give them over and they are ripped then latter if you slay 3 more times and you are asked to produce those tags you will only have 1 tag left, and your in trouble. However if you are just crossing off boxes on the battle board, by the time you are asked to produce proof of your slays you can say "oh I already checked those off just now". It is a lot easier to do this, than it is to go to all the effort to carry "extra" paper tags. While I realize that this small difference is what I just called it, small, it does still exist.
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Ok, I can see the difference. Yes small, but it is there. In neither case does it prevent the player from slaying an extra 2 times, but the tag system does make them more aware of the infraction.


-Joe
 
phedre said:
A PC can carry empty gas globes... why can't an NPC?
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"Empty gas globes" should be kept in an OOG compartment. While not explicitly stated in the rulebook, the rules for spell packets (pg 99) and gas globe physreps and their theft (pg 109 and 145) suggest that the spirit of the rules is that you never have more packets than tags in hand, and that you can't "trick" people into thinking you have more alchemy than you do. (If you keep your "untagged" packets in an IG pocket or area where they are subsequently stolen from, you must hand over a tag for them.)

And who's to say the monster isn't capable of producing a substance that will nauseate/feeblemind/paralyze a victim?
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The monster card.
And there is a way to say "everything you have that isn't a magic item is broken." It's called an explosive trap, and sometimes LCO acid or massive effects.
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That's all well and good, but it is a substantially different situation than "oh, I fell on them and they broke". (An excuse which also ignores takeouts that involve no falling whatsoever: web, paralysis, confine, prison, etc.). Nothing quite like paralyzing a guy in mid throw, then searching him and finding out the packet in his hand as he's throwing it suddenly magically "broke".)

can't you suspend your disbelief and think that a random undead drops all his nausea poison when he crumbles to dust, and the act of dropping it pops the globe but you don't suffer the same misfortune?
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I can suspend my disbelief and imagine the crew of the Enterprise invaded the world of Alliance, but it doesn't make for a better game.

99 times out of 100 when I go out as a benny people just keep a tag they should have ripped, and I vouch for the existance of the spell I cast. I ask people if they need a tag for blah protective/spellstore item, and if they need it, I go get one and give it to them.
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Seems to me like not carrying tags for protectives and curatives that may be used on PCs is just laziness. Just like you can prereg a player, you can prepull your NPCs' beneficial memorization. I mean, you have to pick your memorization before you leave monster camp anyways, why not pull the tags for the bennies while you're at it? A minute of tag pulling prevents frustration, confusion, and ultimately enhances the game experienced by the players, because they don't have to waste time being oog to make sure they're not accused of cheating.

Mind you, I'm not saying it can't be done a different way. The game just works better in terms of player satisfaction, consistency of applied rules, and flow of game play when you do.
 
JP: There are stat cards that throw poisons, not gasses, which was my (admittedly ill worded) point. The NPC will be carrying orange packets, but there is nothing for the PC to pick up in ready-to-go form because the creature produces the substance, they don't visit an alchemist to procure it. If players want something to pick up as treasure, they should see their local plot team to ask if they can get appropriate LCO tags if/when they cut the creature open. Cool alchemy plot could come of it! IRL there are creatures that can spit/inject substances that will blind you, paralyze you, or liquify the flesh off your bones... why can't IG creatures? That mental image is how I try and reconcile the IG/OOG discrepancy of thrown poisons but not reaping poison tags.

My suspension of disbelief is about creating an IG visual effect or reason why things don't happen IG... kind of like reverse metagaming, using OOG knowledge to improve IG experience. Sometimes what is desirable to make a perfect IG experience has to take a backseat to what is realistically attainable given staffing/time/phys rep availability limitations. If you don't want to do that it's cool, but the "they destroyed the gas globe when they fell" isn't so different from the unuseable weapon reason why all NPC weapons don't have weapon tags.

There are limits on aura carrying, because the packets OOG represent how much magic you have. Gas globes are IG, and you can have empty ones. Cauliflowering gas globes can be a valid form of intimidation... kind of like loading a gun with blanks. You can still aim it, pull the trigger and get a loud sound, but you aren't going to blow a hole in someone. (I know a blank can hurt someone... just leave the analogy where it is.)
 
phedre said:
J
There are limits on aura carrying, because the packets OOG represent how much magic you have. Gas globes are IG, and you can have empty ones. Cauliflowering gas globes can be a valid form of intimidation... kind of like loading a gun with blanks. You can still aim it, pull the trigger and get a loud sound, but you aren't going to blow a hole in someone. (I know a blank can hurt someone... just leave the analogy where it is.)
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But as JP pointed out, in the rulebook it says that the gas globes are IG and if stolen, the tag for that gas needs to be turned over to the person who stole it. If I managed to steal a globe from someone and it turns out that he didn't have any gasses, I would be rather peeved.

The thing is that if PC's are expected to do certain things, the least we can ask is that the NPC's follow the same rules where possible. If I am taken out by a PC or NPC and he comes over and rogues me, can I opt that all of the alchemy on me broke when I fell over?

For the record, at my chapter, the one time when I had rogued a gas chucker, the NPC took out his alchemy tags, removed the ones he had thrown and handed me the rest. That's when I knew that someone was thinking ahead.
 
phedre said:
JP: There are stat cards that throw poisons, not gasses, which was my (admittedly ill worded) point. The NPC will be carrying orange packets, but there is nothing for the PC to pick up in ready-to-go form because the creature produces the substance, they don't visit an alchemist to procure it. If players want something to pick up as treasure, they should see their local plot team to ask if they can get appropriate LCO tags if/when they cut the creature open. Cool alchemy plot could come of it! IRL there are creatures that can spit/inject substances that will blind you, paralyze you, or liquify the flesh off your bones... why can't IG creatures? That mental image is how I try and reconcile the IG/OOG discrepancy of thrown poisons but not reaping poison tags.
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And that is a totaly seperate call...the verbal for that would be "Nausa posion" and not "Nausa GAS posion". One is the monster ablilty and the other is the GAS. The GAS would require a tag. I also find it ironic that the globes break but nothing else does. No potions, no sticks, nothing.
 
phedre said:
JP: There are stat cards that throw poisons, not gasses, which was my (admittedly ill worded) point.
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Gotcha. Sure, if it's creature X that throws "Sleep Poison" and not, say, a kobold who throws "Sleep Gas Poison", it's all good. My argument is relating to the latter, not the former.

Personally, I'm a big of fan of putting out LCO treasure in the nature of "poisony glands - can be used to pay for 10 production points of alchemy". I like putting it out, and I like receiving it.

There are limits on aura carrying, because the packets OOG represent how much magic you have. Gas globes are IG, and you can have empty ones. Cauliflowering gas globes can be a valid form of intimidation... kind of like loading a gun with blanks. You can still aim it, pull the trigger and get a loud sound, but you aren't going to blow a hole in someone. (I know a blank can hurt someone... just leave the analogy where it is.)
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As far as I can tell, that would be playing contrary to the spirit of the rules. Personally, it seems like downright cheating. The rules are designed that you can't "fake out" opponents by using physreps that aren't valid. You shouldn't run at monsters swinging a Shattered weapon acting like you can would them with it, you can't carry more spell packets in hand than you can legally throw, you can't fake incants. Claiming to be carrying empty gas globes isn't kosher for all the same reasons.
 
jpariury said:
phedre said:
JP: There are stat cards that throw poisons, not gasses, which was my (admittedly ill worded) point.
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Gotcha. Sure, if it's creature X that throws "Sleep Poison" and not, say, a kobold who throws "Sleep Gas Poison", it's all good. My argument is relating to the latter, not the former.

Personally, I'm a big of fan of putting out LCO treasure in the nature of "poisony glands - can be used to pay for 10 production points of alchemy". I like putting it out, and I like receiving it.

There are limits on aura carrying, because the packets OOG represent how much magic you have. Gas globes are IG, and you can have empty ones. Cauliflowering gas globes can be a valid form of intimidation... kind of like loading a gun with blanks. You can still aim it, pull the trigger and get a loud sound, but you aren't going to blow a hole in someone. (I know a blank can hurt someone... just leave the analogy where it is.)
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As far as I can tell, that would be playing contrary to the spirit of the rules. Personally, it seems like downright cheating. The rules are designed that you can't "fake out" opponents by using physreps that aren't valid. You shouldn't run at monsters swinging a Shattered weapon acting like you can would them with it, you can't carry more spell packets in hand than you can legally throw, you can't fake incants. Claiming to be carrying empty gas globes isn't kosher for all the same reasons.
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I agree with all of that.
 
What's the difference then between carrying empty gas globe, carrying a weapon you can't use, or carrying multiple packets if you only have a magic storm item (and no purchased spell slots)?

All three give others the impression that you can do something you can't. Why would any of those be against the spirit of the rules? I only see that you can't hold aura unless you can cast a spell and that's because IG your hand is glowing based on your spellcasting ability. Players are expected to be honest, characters aren't. To me, that falls into the character's intent, and isn't representative of the player's integrity. It's a fantasy game... some people want to play their characters as less than honest, why take the possibility away from them?
 
I see it as a player taking advantage of the fact that there are no IG reps for empty gas globes. If there were, your argument would be moot.
 
It's one thing to carry a weapon you have no skill for and another to carry around a boffer rep with no tag or one that has previously been Shattered or Destroyed. If it helps, suspend disbelief by saying "Well obviously gas globes are translucent and anyone can obviously see that these have no ingredients inside to make the volatile gasses to be released upon throwing, so obviously there's no point in carrying around empty ones into battle."
 
Jeff and Robb pretty much said what I'd say.
phedre said:
To me, that falls into the character's intent, and isn't representative of the player's integrity. It's a fantasy game... some people want to play their characters as less than honest, why take the possibility away from them?
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Same reason you take away the possibility of getting hit with a Sleep effect, calling "Resist" and then still falling down like you were Slept, IG faking, but OOG having clearly called your defense. Some things simply don't work well for representational game mechanics.
 
I would have sworn there was a rule at one time where if you carried a weapon that you weren't proficient in, you had to hold it upside down or some such thing to signify you didn't know how to use it. Must be a really old rule.

As for more alchemy globes than you have alchemy tags, I found this in the rules, page 86 under the Gas Globes section:

"Further, if someone steals your gas globe physical representations, you must turn over the appropriate number of tags to represent that which has been taken." Although there could be some issue with extra globes that have recently been used still being on your person, I'd imagine visible reps should equate to at most how many globe tags you have with you.

Now, not having level 3 alchemy and still packing a fistful of alchemical globes - that falls under the carrying a weapon you can't use category.
 
If I recall correctly, you can carry any weapon you want, proficient or not. But if anyone strikes it, you take damage as if they struck you.
 
markusdark said:
I would have sworn there was a rule at one time where if you carried a weapon that you weren't proficient in, you had to hold it upside down or some such thing to signify you didn't know how to use it. Must be a really old rule.
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I've never heard that rule. Maybe a different larp?
 
Robb Graves said:
If I recall correctly, you can carry any weapon you want, proficient or not. But if anyone strikes it, you take damage as if they struck you.
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Correct
 
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