Houses

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In the prior chapter, the ruling was handed down that the OOG cabins are just that: OOG. (That thread has since been removed as part of the assorted changing of servers and ownership) There were no IG consequences for showing up on site and setting up in a cabin that was traditionally used by group X or Y. It was further stated that IG titles to a particular building or plot of land were strictly IG considerations and bore no reflection on the OOG buildings or their occupants. It was suggested/encouraged that if people want to occupy a specific building at an event, that they amicably work it out with anyone who wanted to claim it OOG. The prior chapter's staff's official position, IIRC, though, was first-come, first-serve.

I lately have not attended NERO Seattle events, so I expect that anything I say on the matter will have little bearing on what decision the owner and GM ultimately make. However, as a marshal, to say that your OOG actions (selecting a cabin to stay in) will have IG consequences is the very soul of metagaming, or in the least, "being a jerk".

If any form of compromise were to be made (and my opinion mattered), I would suggest players who want a specific cabin should be required to have a certain level of pre-reg'ed AND pre-paid attendance and occupancy. For instance, to have the central building in the field as a guaranteed (OOG) cabin to use, it could be required that whatever group wants it have 5 or more players pre-paid for 90% of a year's events. This would have no bearing on IG titles of land and property. Much like the Ships, Estates, and assorted "stuff", it would be a roleplay-specific perk: someplace to say you go to and do things at, and plot gets to dink with your character through it.

The route that much of the discussion in this thread seems to be taking leads me to anticipate a day when a player has his/her character purchase all of the cabins on site so as to prevent specific players from having a location to be in, or as a means of getting IG retribution on them.
 
jpariury;19232 said:
...it could be required that whatever group wants it have 5 or more players pre-paid for 90% of a year's events.
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Yeah, because people who play NERO have that kind of money.

As far as I'm concerned, there are only 2 buildings that should ALWAYS be the same every single event: the celestial and earth guilds. This is because they have permanent structures in them IG.

If all of one group doesn't pre-reg/show up, I say their cabin is fair game.
 
That's not actually that much of a commitment, considering that there are now going to be about 3 events per year. Pre-paying for a 'majority' meens shelling out $100 one time rather then $50 twice.

In thinking about this the last few days, it occured to me that it's very unlikely that there are 80 pcs planning on staying in the 10 'reserved' cabins, or even 40. I'm sure that at least a few of those cabins only have two or three people staying in them. That is, in fact, part of the reason I never bought a cabin. Without Barry and Daryl, there just aren't enough of us to warrant it.

As it is, the situation that JP envisioned where someone may be left without a place to stay is actually fairly easy to achieve. If I buy one of the two remaining open cabins, that only leaves one. Surely there is still bunk space with someone, and it's my understanding that the Earth Guild and the cabins behind the tavern are 'unreservable', but at this point, if someone wants to have a building for their group, they're a stone's throw away from being SOL.
 
Sarah;19233 said:
Yeah, because people who play NERO have that kind of money.

As far as I'm concerned, there are only 2 buildings that should ALWAYS be the same every single event: the celestial and earth guilds. This is because they have permanent structures in them IG.

If all of one group doesn't pre-reg/show up, I say their cabin is fair game.
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Keep in mind that a "group" isnt a well defined thing. We can take johnathan and my (kauss's) cabin. Tho the dwarves get along with johnathan, we are not a "group" most the time. However IG he lives in the cabin with Kauss's knowledge and has for some time. So whom defines groups?

Now I know in my case, realising I may not make games for a bit, but also wanting to make sure people who stay in my cabin had no issues(and other reasons as well) made sure that IG the matter was handled with some documents. As well as ooc making sure plot knew there were IG documents about it.

By the by, if the celestial guild and earth cant be moved due to perm structures then no place that has IG alterations can be moved, or any place can be moved. The circles are just as easy/hard to move as a divided cabin or a Strengthened cabin is. I was told they dont moved ooc becouse IG thats where they are (barring ooc issues like wasps or the like). I was also told that any other place that is IG a set location (like people's houses) should be delt with the same way unless there was some ooc reason (see wasps again) to have it move.

Now yes, if no one who would normaly stay in that cabin will be there then some other cabin could be there. Or, IG people could ask the owner of said cabin if they could stay there while he/she is out of the area (I know Kauss used to get occupation requests all the time even when he was going to be in town.)

Now to JP's concerns. I was told that charicters would never be allowed to buy up all the places with the intent of keeping people from having any place to sleep (I know, I looked into it.) However it was also said that if there was a real space issue that something would be worked out. (aka meaning that if they had to be people would be bunked together and some IG explanations would be made between the players involved.) But unless there is a spaceing issue, I dont see the big worry.
 
Honestly this isn't really as big a deal as people are making it out to be. JP's recollection is not entirely correct, so I'll clarify.

1) *SOME* of the player cabins were made available for purchase IG at Plot's discretion. I don't know what's happened recently to make even more available all of a sudden, and it's not something I'm qualified to answer to.

2) Purchasing a cabin IG gave (at the time) your group the OOG rights to claim that cabin if any member of your group was present at a given event.

3) If no member of your group is at a given event then your OOG cabin becomes usable by anyone.

4) If bed space becomes an issue players in 'owned' cabins may be required to compromise in order to make sure all players have bunk space.

The list of cabins *I* know of that fall under this description is
The Earth Guild (Meadow cabin)
Brotherhood of the Star (Meadow ramp cabin)
House DeWinter (Between EG and BoTS, possibly defunct by now)
Zodiac (Forest, 1st on the left)
Eli/Shikar (Forest, next to Zodiac)
Robert (Forest, next to Eli/Shikar)
Kauss (Forest, farthest right)
Polare (Swamp ramp cabin) ?

It was never intended to make all 12 player cabins permanent residences; I'm not sure what happened to change the allotment recently.

As far as Dave's comment, I'd be willing to submit to a pre-reg requirement of at least one regular resident with a promise to fill at least half of the beds in the cabin.

Conversely, if I get to an event and someone has set up in my cabin (Forest, second from the left AS ALWAYS) who doesn't belong there I will cheerfully tell them to move and not feel bad about it. We consistently fill out 6 or more of our 8 bunks and this group has been using this cabin for years now, so it shouldn't come as a surprise.

-Dan
 
Sarah;19233 said:
Yeah, because people who play NERO have that kind of money.
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If the 90% of an event thing has people coughing up blood, they can always do it per event. It could as easily work requiring that a reserved cabin be pre-paid with 5 occupants one month before the event.

As far as I'm concerned, there are only 2 buildings that should ALWAYS be the same every single event: the celestial and earth guilds. This is because they have permanent structures in them IG.
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If they were under plot-control, I would agree, but they're not (not in any practiced manner, anyways), so I'm less inclined to lean that way.

If all of one group doesn't pre-reg/show up, I say their cabin is fair game.
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Kicking out people because one person shows up is pretty weak sauce. Kicking them out because someone "might" or "is expected to" show up is even worse.
 
jpariury;19241 said:
Kicking out people because one person shows up is pretty weak sauce. Kicking them out because someone "might" or "is expected to" show up is even worse.
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This whole discussion is weaksauce no matter how you slice it. Inconvenience is going to befall someone no matter what policy is placed, and someone is going to be put out and made upset.
 
Yet without a policy of any kind it becomes a matter of attempting to solve problems as they arise - which can lead to the very problems which brought this conversation to the fore.

A couple of clarifications -

1. Not all cabins are "for sale," in fact I would dare say it would be difficult to buy one a this point.

2. "House" purchasing is an IG action, as is trying to find a group to stay with.

3. Mistakenly setting up in a cabin which is the traditional IG residence of one or more individuals is an OOG action and shoul be dealt with OOG in as polite a manner as possible. Any disputes not resolvable will be subject to arbitration by the owner or GM.

4. Purposefully setting up in someone else's cabin would be considered a violation of good sportsmanship since the setup of cabins takes place before game on is called. If you are wishing to take over someone's cabin in such a fashion, request a mod, supply the physrepped building to take over as well as the NPC's/PC's involved and plot will consider running it for you.

5. Yes, it is possible that someone could take IG actions whch would make it more difficult for a person or people to have a cabin to sleep in. This is considered PvP and is not against the rules. While it's not nice, it can happen.
 
It seems that there are two cabins in the swamp that are unpurchased (one of which I understand has no heat), along with the logistics cabin and the few behind the tavern. Should we assume that all of these are 'unpurchasable' and that some of us have simply 'missed the boat' on doing the 'buy a cabin' thing? Should I try to 'add some more quotes' to that last sentance?

I think the only point of confusion at this point has been introduced recently in this thread. Are the OOG buildings reserved OOG by purchasing a building IG? That's how this has been being treated, but is it necessarily the case? (It was mentioned that 'property' is bought IG and has only IG consequences, and that some IG buildings move for OOG reasons, that then do not effect the game IG, etc.)
 
If you have not made IG arangements to actually have a plot of land with a cabin eitherthrough renting it, buying it, or asking someone lese, you can be reasonably assured that you are not guaranteed to actually have one. Everything which has not been purchased (and reserved through pre-regging and stating which cabin is yours) is basically on a first come, first served basis and you should be reasonably certain there will be some sort of rent attached to it.

The logistics cabin is not rentable or buyable. The plot/staff cabin is oog and is not rentable or buyable. The cabin to the left facing away from the back of the tavern is owned by the tavern and is rentable through them on weekends it is not in use by oog parents/guardians. Everything else has either been bought by PC's or is owned by someone else in town.

Thee are oog circumstances which can affect the cabin situation. if a cabin is unlivable due to construction, damage, etc. it is possible that cabin will be replaced for the weekend with another. It will be up to plot to determine how this effects game.
 
Given the IG circumstances for some characters it is unrealistic to expect those characters to purchase a permenant location in game, but OOG those players would like to be able to use the same cabin every weekend.
*caugh*gypsies*caugh*

Recently our cabin was purchased out from under us despite the fact that it was supposed to represent a vardo (travelling wagon). I have asked a few times whether or not we can bring big tents to the site, and have been told that we are not allowed to do so. Not being able to bring big tents and not being rich enough to have an actual vardo on site means we have to use a cabin. OOG we need a place to sleep, IG we are sleeping in a wagon.

I am personally irritated by the entire purchasing thing going on, especially as it relates to being excised from a location that represented something that was not taken from us IG.

I'm all for PVP, but if someone wants to take our Vardo, they are going to have to kill us for it, not buy it out from under us through the government.
 
Mark, I can understand your frustration but also gotta take into account that a) that cabin was not used by gypsies for gypsies for like almost two years before you guys came back en masse and found it gone and b) there was a plot team/ownership change during said absence. If it was a matter of you guys were gone for an event or three and poof your location is gone but there was a pretty huge gap in there. I mean, I'm guessing you guys didn't leave the vardo parked there the entire time you were gone, so who's to say someone couldn't have built a cabin there in the interum. Plus, as the plotline goes, this isn't the exact same land you guys left, via the whole "a rift opens and swallows the crossroads and when the smoke clears everything is almost the way it was"..

Shrug, until or unless we ever get a permanent site with buildings that people's groups could just leave set up with gear and decorations and just slap a padlock on it in between events, there is never going to be true equity on who gets what rights to what buildings. I am a firm believer in the idea that characters who are from the chapter who is hosting an event should have some say on these matters, they live here and characters who pop in and out of town on a whim every so often don't. For characters like Kauss and Shikar who for IG reasons never leave the chapter (they may not show up to a game and so they're out of town that weekend, but that can't be helped sometimes) it makes absolutely no sense for them to show up to game at 6pm and find that OOG someone else jumped claim on the cabin in which they have a permanent circle cast, so IG somehow all their stuff is piled up on the lawn out in front of their house? Yes, maybe they should have been encouraged to stake out a less desireable house to put a circle in for that very reason, but done is done and in a game that has so many inconsistancies due to real life considerations like site restrictions real life forcing too many issues to change all the time, any stabilities we can impose on our game environment should be encouraged.
 
Dave, you are the one who told me we couldn't bring big tents.

Jeff,
I wasn't talking about the house across from the healers guild. I was talking about the one in the forest that we had been using since we were invited to attend Seattle events again.
 
I did? Thatw as silly of me. I will look at the site requirements again. If I said that, there is probably something there about not being able to erect tents on the ELC land.
 
Ahhh, my bad. Point withdrawn, but underlying reasoning stands for the other stuff :D
 
From what I understand, your vardo wasn't bought. The land it was sitting on was.

Aka: get off my lawn.

In their defense, the dark elf/sarr-fest house HAS used that location before to house people who they didn't have room for/didn't trust being in the main cabin. So there's the precedent that there was a building there IG.

I think there are some IG repurcussions to previous actions your characters have taken IG going on. Does it suck? Yes. Did you do things with your characters that indicated your openness to PvP? Yes. Since there are other cabins available, I personally feel that it was a fine move buying the land out from under you. In fact, I wish I'd thought of it back when I was playing Diera!

To sum things up:
  • Your location got bought - suck.
  • There are other cabins available still.
  • Plot will never sell ALL the cabins.
  • PvP happens... right? Right.
 
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