Investiture, recognize and a CSS

Status
Not open for further replies.
Gilwing

Gilwing

Administrator
Alliance Logistics
Alliance Owner
This is the text from the Ritual Scroll Investiture: Target Spirit

The ritual caster must spend 5 minutes in the casting of this ritual. The Investiture lasts for the entire existence of the Circle of Power or until Divestiture. This is a General Aspect ritual and will always be the same as the aspect of the ritual caster and must also be the same aspect as the Circle of Power. This ritual does not count against the 20 ritual limits upon a spirit. The target may refuse an Investiture ritual, however a target cannot refuse a Divestiture ritual. This ritual forms or destroys a link between a Circle of Power and a spirit. Investiture forms a link allowing the spirit to control whom the Circle recognizes and to use its inherent powers. Divestiture removes the link between the Circle and the spirit. The ritual must be cast in the Circle where the link is being created or destroyed. The ritual caster must be invested in the Circle where the link is to be created or destroyed. The spirit that is to be Invested or Divested must be present in the Circle where the ritual is being cast. An invested spirit outside the Circle can cause the Circle to recognize him or herself by physically touching it. An invested spirit within Line of Sight of the Circle can cause the circle to recognize any other beings and allow them access at will without need of physically touching it by incanting "The Circle recognizes you". This can be done while under the effects of a Silence Spell (This is necessary so everyone can OOG hear the recognition). Only a spirit in a body or an animated form (such as a Construct) can use the circles inherent powers.

I am CSS and I have my bottle on me. I receive a successful Investiture Ritual. Do I need my bottle on me in order to use the benefits of the Invest?
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
...I don't know the RAI on this, but based on that text...

The Investiture is on the spirit. You can't cast Investiture on anything but a spirit. Ergo....yeah...that would indicate you can't be "invested" if you don't have your spirit on you.

I'm looking forward to other Marshals piping up on this. As I said, I don't know if that's RAI.
 
Upvote 0
Draven said:
...I don't know the RAI on this, but based on that text...

The Investiture is on the spirit. You can't cast Investiture on anything but a spirit. Ergo....yeah...that would indicate you can't be "invested" if you don't have your spirit on you.

I'm looking forward to other Marshals piping up on this. As I said, I don't know if that's RAI.
Click to expand...


Gilwing said:
I am CSS and I have my bottle on me. I receive a successful Investiture Ritual. Do I need my bottle on me in order to use the benefits of the Invest?
Click to expand...

In my question I mention that the Invest was successful, meaning it is now on my spirit because I had my bottle on me when cast. I am trying to figure out that, do I need my bottle on me when I want to walk in and out of the circle that I am invested in?
 
Upvote 0
Upvote 0
No, I don't think that's Evan's intent. He's saying that you don't count as Invested when your spirit is not with you.

There are a few things here. Exam these two lines of text:

Investiture forms a link allowing the spirit to control whom the Circle recognizes and to use its inherent powers.

Only a spirit in a body or an animated form (such as a Construct) can use the circles inherent powers.
Click to expand...

Aside from the grammatical error in the second line, note that a distinction is made between the Circle recognizing someone in or out and "inherent powers" in the first statement. "Inherent powers" are then referenced again in the second statement as being only useable by a spirit in a body or an animated form. An argument can be made that this means that allowing the Circle to recognize someone is not prohibited by the second statement. However, this is finicky and deals in parsing text in a way that often misses the intention of Alliance rules.

Secondly, and more importantly, there is the question of why the prohibition on disembodied spirits using the circle is mentioned in the text in the first place. I suspect that the ultimate intent behind the prohibition was to prevent someone in a "Spirit Form" from using the Circle, for example, someone awaiting resurrection resurrecting themselves. Similarly, a spirit in a bottle via Controlled Spirit Store is not be able to perform resurrections or identifications if left behind in the Circle. Since the "inherent powers" argument above is dubious at best, I would conclude that this also prevents a spirit awaiting resurrection, Stored into a bottle, or otherwise not in a physical body from recognizing people in or out of the Circle. I consider this to likely be the source of the rule: somebody left a spirit bottle in a circle with the idea that the spirit would automatically recognize certain people in and out as a means of loophole investiture, or something similar.

With all of that said, I think that a strict interpretation of the rules does forbid someone who is CSSed and does not have their bottle from recognizing people into or out of a Circle. This has ramifications: a CSSed person not in possession of their bottle is not only unable to recognize others into the Circle, they themselves cannot pass the Circle. The same would be true of Wards and Wizardlocks. Thus someone could not leave their bottle in a Ward and freely enter or exit that Ward, or any other. I am not certain that people have been playing that in this way, and I wouldn't blame them for not picking up on it. As I am not on ARC, my ruling here is not final. I do think that ARC should make a ruling on this and depending on that ruling I may ask that the rules be clarified or improved.
 
Upvote 0
To ARC I go. Thank you all for your input
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top