Keeping IG and OOG separate: what's your method?

phedre

Squire
I started this topic of discussion on FB, and I think it's one that merits discussion in a wider area within our community:

How do you keep a separation between your IG conflicts and your OOG relationships?

What are the best methods for maintaining that separation?

What prompted you to create or change your method(s)?
 
I basically never PC and have no significant attachments to any in game characters, affiliations or basically anything. It is very easy for me because I am only modestly personally invested in any of a the characters I play, and several of them are diametrically opposed, so I am naturally able to keep in and out of game separate.

This is one of the reasons why I am in favor of disincentivizing playing a single, heavily-blanketed character exclusively.
 
I've actually been looking for an article on this to send to a few people. Honestly, I'd love one that explains "It's okay to PVP your friends IG." I'd love to see the FB post on the subject if you can share it.

I'm a long time (10+ years) Vampire The Masquerade and etc Political/Social larper. The separation of OOG and IG is rather stark, as none of us would ever want to be a murderous lying undead human predator. It's easy for most, however people still have issues with bleed (http://nordiclarptalks.org/post/48274368386/bleed-how-emotions-affect-role-playing-experiences) and will take things that happen IG, OOG personally. (And aside, I have a saying: Take it seriously, but not personally)

All larp, regardless of style and system has a separation of player and character.

But to your basic questions, since I can really go on and on and rant on this subject in general:

How do you keep a separation between your IG conflicts and your OOG relationships?

People who have issues with this usually are missing some core factors:
-Nothing that happens IG is personal to you OOG. Be it falling in love, getting divorced, getting murdered, murdering someone else, winning, or losing.
-Roleplaying is acting out and fake-experiencing events as a character. Just like watching a movie, except you're doing the portrayal and co-writing the story.

Personally, I try to write characters that are rather different from myself IRL. I have specific music I listen to, costuming pieces, mannerisms, and physical reactions that separate my character from myself. I don't take things personal on an OOG level, heck I don't really take them seriously on an OOG level if its a purely IG thing.

I don't really have to remind myself too often these days, but I find it helpful to remember that win, lose, live, die, any of that is just story. As long as its portrayed and scene-ed well and within the rules, its good LARP. I can enjoy being on the rather rear-end of a scene as much as I can the top end as long as the depth (immersion) is there. I take the whole "This is a fun way of being an actor in a play" style approach.

I find that a lot of people, regardless of the style of larp, have never had a significant, powerful, meaningful, and enjoyable loss event or scene with a PC. That troubles me on two fronts: One, they're missing out on one of the most powerful larping experiences possible. Two, they're being dis serviced by their staff and fellow PCs. It's not a good game, let alone a good story if it's all rainbows and clown shoes. I can't think of a single realistic adult book or movie that was all rainbows and clown shoes. Good story is made from adversity, especially in extremes.

But one caveat: If your game is all rainbows and clown shoes, no PVP, and OOG/IG lines don't exist - that's your style and that's cool, rock on. Not really what most larp systems are asking for, but totally cool if thats what you and your community wants.

What are the best methods for maintaining that separation?

Hang out and talk to people OOG, before game, after game, during game (where appropriate), and outside of game. Realize and see that each person is NOT their character, and these separations become much easier.

Write characters that act, react, dress, etc differently. Stuff you can portray of course. Like I won't eat asparagus and I can't do accents.

It's also a matter of approach and attitude at a LARP. Some people just don't approach some larps in a manner that it is designed for. I've met hundreds of larpers whom larp is a replacement for their RL, or an unhealthy level of escapism. The bleed video and articles explains this way better than I can. You have to have a healthy approach, and it has to fit the community as well.

PVP your friends. Like seriously, get an IG rivalry going between you and a friend's PC. Create an ongoing villain for a friend or group of friends that does awful things to them. Everyone should be able to say "I hate you so much for that, I'm gonna get you later, thank you and more please!" afterwords. If people are taking IG things personally OOG, thats unhealthy. If you're worried about such, talk to them OOG about your perception and concern, but don't accuse. Most likely its all gravy if everyone approaches it as IG stuff.

What prompted you to create or change your method(s)?

I sorta haven't, but its due to a luck thing with my background in larping.

It's been a slow growth of separation of character and player in that I've added things on in the years of experience so that there is a much larger separation. I actually played a stone-elf like character at my first larp when I moved to Cali a few years back, and people were SHOCKED I had a sense of humor, talked a lot, was totally apolitical, and had emotion at a New Years Eve party OOG.

But, I can say what contributed the most was the first LARP I played at was a very anti-bleed game. It was regular for PVP, and I mean character ending PVP to happen, even on large scales. It was normal to tell not only your friends, but your fellow larpers that you're gunning for them, and they didn't metagame it and instead planned a better social/roleplay reaction when they get gunned. And then they planned to gun back. To me, the separation was normal, you're supposed to be totally different in game, and not take anything that happens personally OOG - from someone hitting on you romantically to someone plotting your death and actually killing you. Not to mention, it was a sort of sign of competitiveness and social "props" to portray a character very different from yourself or do actions you'd never do IRL in the game.

-Porch
Denver
 
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I guess I just don't see them as the same person so it's not an issue. If I think someone might have a problem with something I am doing or about to do, I try to talk to them out of game first to let them know what's up and that I don't hate them.

I've only been playing a little over a year but I haven't had a hard time keeping IG as IG and OOG as OOG.

I realize that this answer doesn't really help spur on any discussion nor does it give anyone any tips on how to keep IG and OOG separate.

I guess really the take away is "communicate with people". If you just had an intense scene with someone and you think they might be angry, drop out of game at a good point sometime in the future (or even after the event) and let them know that you respected the exchange and that everything is cool.
 
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The groups I tend to roll with do a lot of PvP and interpersonal drama type stuff, and sometimes tensions IG run like, super high.

I literally got into a 30 minute screaming match in the middle of a tavern with somebody this last game. My heart was pounding, adrenaline was pumping, for all intents and purposes, it was a REAL fight. It took me a bit of time to cool down, but it took Tvard (my character) LESS time. He went back and appologized, where I myself might have said "Screm em" and moved on.

Now keep in mind that myself and the person I was fighting with are friends. We chat OOG and we don't have any real issues.

So how do I keep it seperate? Well, I just have to think in character. Tvard has a drastically different worldview than I do. I remember what insults him is different than what insults me.

I think having a regimen to get in character helps a lot. It helps build that divide between you and them. I often need that to help galvanize IG harships from OOG rivalries.

It also helps to not be an *** and just be nice to people OOG. When there's no OOG stuff to drag into game it makes it a lot easier to keep those waters unmuddied.
 
I approach it from this perspective:

From game-on until game-off, I take everything as being in-game and directed at my character. I thought that is how it was supposed to be?
 
I approach it from this perspective:

From game-on until game-off, I take everything as being in-game and directed at my character. I thought that is how it was supposed to be?

I don't know if you are joking or not but if your serious I would have to say you are wrong on this. It would be nice to have it that way, during game time there is no OOG, if you heard it your character knows it...That would make more people not say things OOG so that people won't know but that isn't the case with our game (others do have this).
 
I'd like it to be more the cultural norm that if you're in an IG area, what you say is IG. It gets complicated, though, in places like bathrooms or the kitchen (in some chapters) where it's a sort of gray area. That's probably for a different discussion, though.

My question is more this, Adam: how do you keep emotions/conflicts from bleeding into real life from game?
 
A while back my wife and I had an in game fight that was extremely intense, to the point where I worried we were going to have bleed over like you described... so I did the most logical thing I could do at the time, I briefly went OOG and asked if she was okay with it. She went OOG, grinned, said she was having a great time, and then we went back IG and verbally tore each other's hearts out. Now I know that I can go that far with her and we can both keep that IG stuff IG. If she wasn't okay, I would have toned it down, or said hey, meet me in the OOG bathroom then gone IG, shouted a parting shot and stormed off... where I then went OOG to the bathroom where we could talk it out.

The trick as far as I can see to keep IG interaction from tainting things OOG, is to have OOG interaction. Of course this assumes that the person has a decent IG/OOG barrier in the first place.

It sounds like you or someone you know is having some bleed-over, and I have to say that's natural. You'll get a high when your character succeeds, and you'll be sad when your IG friend perms. Knowing that it's okay to feel these things, and then learn to process those emotions as future character motivations, will help build up that mental barrier. If you find that you're upset at a person for what their character has done... well, you should probably talk to that person. If they're a decent person playing a nasty character, they'll likely admit that they had their character do a nasty thing, and maybe explain the motivations of that PC. Either way, forming a narrative with the other player will again strengthen the story/real life barrier. The more you can work together with people in crafting a story, of which you recognize you're but one actor, the easier it will be to not nurse hurt feelings from something someone did, and instead turn it into more narrative. It's the difference between "I know you stole my stuff and I'm going to kill your character next game!" and "If my PC ever finds out that you stole her stuff, you know I'm going to kill your PC, right?"
 
I have two big things that I stick to for IG conflict.
1) If I'm having an IG conflict with someone I do make it a point to OOG at some point make clear that it's strictly IG and that OOG we're good. I'll try to avoid breaking game to do it, like making it a point to talk to them in the logistics line or during a hold or something, but I will do it.
1a) Corollary to that, unless someone is like "Hoyce you're a piece of s*** and I hate you" I'm going to assume that anything coming at me on stage is strictly IG.
2) I react and treat folks as my character would, not as Hoyce would. I once nearly came to (IG) blows with Henry to the point that people were approaching us OOG asking if we were ok because they knew we were good friends and thought we were actually mad at each other! Hoyce would never want to fight Henry, but my character sure did at that moment.
I admit, sometimes this can get a little more complex. Yelling at one another and being ready to come to blows in the middle of town is a whole different matter than being ready to assassinate someone for some reason. The questions I always find myself asking when it comes to a conflict are: What's my reason(s) for doing/saying/writing this? Are those reasons IG or OOG? If any of them are OOG, I need to reassess the action.
Admittedly, in the heat of the moment that can be a challenge, and I’d be a liar if I said that sometimes a little of Hoyce didn’t bleed into Cedric/Kyril/Rex etc, but in general these policies have served me well.
 
Hi, my name is Kris and for all intents and purposes I can't talk to my best friend IG depending on the character I play.

My Gettysburg PC is awful: racist, vain, two-faced, and subsides primarily on cannibalism. I don't see most PCs as people when I play her - they're food or, if they're lucky, meat shields. My best friend tapped on the "vain" nerve and I subsequently killed her for it. That was in April of last year; with the exception of a single case of honor combat, we cannot and will not speak to each other IG as those characters.
How do I draw the line? I talk to her. A lot. I spoke to her before the event where I killed her to make sure she did not mind OOG. I check in with her periodically in game during downtime to make sure our silence is purely IG. I check in with her outside of events and before/after them. Communication has been key for me in this because I am AWFUL to her in game. This has subsequently lead to an entire squad of people who won't speak to me, and they likewise check in with me to make sure I'm not upset OOG. It helps.

I think that's the best thing you can do: communicate.
 
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I'd like it to be more the cultural norm that if you're in an IG area, what you say is IG. It gets complicated, though, in places like bathrooms or the kitchen (in some chapters) where it's a sort of gray area. That's probably for a different discussion, though.

My question is more this, Adam: how do you keep emotions/conflicts from bleeding into real life from game?

I didn't forget about your question, Lauren, just been thinking about it quite a lot.

I don't know that I could offer anything more useful than has already been stated by others without delving into my own personal experiences which are really only relevant to me.

If I had to point at one thing, it'd be a similar answer to what Hoyce stated above: While I am in-game, unless someone starts calling me "Adam" specifically instead of whatever character I am playing (this is especially important when playing an NPC), I take everything anyone says as being directed at my character and not me and deal with it accordingly. I do appreciate the short OOG comments that players send my way, though (especially when playing a certain NPC), it does make things much easier. =)
 
I find that if I have an adversarial relationship OOG with someone, any IG adversity will feed into the OOG adversarial loop (and likewise, IG adversity will be perceived by one or both of us as an extension of the OOG adversity). I typically just walk away from the game if that's going to be a constant thing.

People with whom I'm totally friends OOG (Bryan G and Adam, to cite a couple of examples), it's usually pretty easy to play conflict with them. We've known each other and been good friends for years, so we not only can keep the relationships distinct, we can thrive on trying to get one over on the other within the game.

The tricky bit is in the sliding scale of friendships or simple acquaintances of OOG relationshipness. If I'm harshing on someone IG whom I've never met or haven't dealt with much (or being harshed on) OOG, there's no reasonable basis for comparison, so I suspect we both just have to wing it and hope for the best. I'd hesitate to suggest that you probably shouldn't go balls-to-the-wall aggro with someone you don't know OOG, but it's a thing to keep in mind. I tend to run that problem in a slightly different way when I play Gregor - he's a bit flirty, and sometimes it can creep people out and sometimes they mistake it for OOG interest that can be reciprocated. I usually just run with it and hope for the best, and if it gets mistaken for an OOG thing, I patch things up afterwards as best I can. (It's actually part of why I wrote up a character who goes out of his way to avoid such entanglements.)

My wife is miles ahead of me on navigating that sort of thing - part of the deal is she's fully aware that she tends to play a pushy, angry bitch, and so she usually takes some time before an event to meet new people, or meet the locals she doesn't know, and be friendly and say hi, and warn them ahead of time that her character is super-kvetchy. Even then, sometimes people are just overwhelmed, so you just try and make clear as best as possible what is what.
 
I don't have much experience LARPing (I've been a role-player for 10 years though) and the best way to do it is to ask the player afterwards if everything's cool. There was one adventure I ran (I'm the GM) where the NPC (played by me) and 2 characters had a huge screaming fight and almost came to violence (IG). After the fight, I immediately checked OOG to see if they were all good.
 
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