Killing blows with wands.

B

Bond

Newbie
On page 97 of the rulebook it states that carrier attacks can be delivered by touch to a target that is unconscious. This is my basis for wondering if a Celestial caster with a wand may deliver a killing blow with said wand using the element it is attuned to(which ever element that may be, the caster may have multiple but they would obviously have to pick one), and if they can deliver a killing blow using the carrier of that element(Flame, Stone, Lightning or Ice), would it expend a charge from the wand?
 
I know that torches and the like have been used for killing blow fire on targets that are out, and I sware someone put a silver peice in their hands once and did killing blow silver. Someone did that at least once for gold as well, so we have something of a precendence.
 
It seems to follow, the wands can be bought and shoot for Flame, Stone, Lightning or Ice. It makes sense that you would be able to killing blow(something the rulebook says you can do with a bare hand) with them for the element or elements that the wand is attuned to.
 
There is no clear indication in the ARB. Off the top of my head, I believe it should expend a charge, since it is "attuned" and not innately consisting of the necessary element (unlike a lit torch which actually has flame, or a silver piece which is actually made of silver, in context).
 
On the other hand, KB isn't a build bought ability and doesn't expend charges from any other skills when you do it. You can do it with your bare hand even.

Wands are stealable, and the element they are attuned to doesn't change based on who's using it... just the number of charges. So if Sandy celestial wizard hands off her lightning wand to her new apprentice, the wand still does lightning. The apprentice just has less charges of less damage to throw than Sandy.

I'd say you can KB with the element the wand is, no charge expended.
 
I put it on the ARC.
My opinion is that you can, and that it does expend a carrier, but I could see it going either way on both.

Killing blow with a Silver piece, OTOH, should not be allowed, regardless of precedence. Sometimes, bad calls are made, that doesn't mean we should keep them.
 
obcidian said:
Killing blow with a Silver piece, OTOH, should not be allowed, regardless of precedence. Sometimes, bad calls are made, that doesn't mean we should keep them.
Click to expand...

I concur.

In my opinion, a carrier should only be applicable to a Killing Blow if the instrument used for the Killing Blow can inflict damage with that carrier. Thus, a Mercury Golem could do Killing Blow Silver with their hands (claws), but not with a silver piece.

As far as Killing Blow with a Wand ... I don't know if it should even be allowed because you would effectively be conducting a Killing Blow with spell energy (granted, it is elemental, but it is still a packet); the wand is just a stick that allows that packet that represents the energy to be thrown. The wand itself does not have an aura.

If it is allowed then I think that should be a precedent to allow a Killing Blow via spell (such as Flame Bolt, Magic Storm, etc) and elemental burst effects and other packet delivered damage, which I think would be nifty anyway.
 
And here I was more picturing jamming the wand through their eye socket or something like that rather than as a thrown packet.

>.>

I might be violent. :lol:
 
I more envisioned a point blank shot to a vital area using the wand. After all that's what the normal KB is, just a lined up shot on an incapacitated target. A Coup de grâce could just as easily be delivered with a bolt of lightning or a fireball as it could with a dagger.
 
I agree with Bond. A KB with just the wand (jamming into an eye socket) is equivalent to jamming a fancy stick into the eye socket. The wand itself does not have an aura to KB with (and thus should be Normal if used for a KB).

I personally see no logical reason why someone couldn't KB with a packet attack (be it wand, elemental burst, spell, etc), but I don't think the rules support such an action.
 
Oak of the Arcane does not grant you the ability to use the chosen element as a carrier with all staves, so I do not suspect you should be permitted to KB with the chosen element with any staff, despite having opted for this High magic.

By extension, I don't know why it would be that a wand might be considered to have an intrinsic elemental carrier. It is the having of charges to use that allows the appropriate elemental carrier to be used in conjunction with expending the charge.

For instance, I do not believe it the intent of the wand rules to allow a character with no charges (either by having expended their charges or by merely not having any celestial spells) to use a wand's attuned element.

There have been, in times previous to this edition, the allowance (and in fact, a requirement for some creatures) to perform a killing blow with a spell, thereby expending the spell.
 
Alavatar said:
I personally see no logical reason why someone couldn't KB with a packet attack (be it wand, elemental burst, spell, etc), but I don't think the rules support such an action.
Click to expand...

jp said:
There have been, in times previous to this edition, the allowance (and in fact, a requirement for some creatures) to perform a killing blow with a spell, thereby expending the spell.
Click to expand...

I've opened a discussion on the ARC boards about specifying that you are allowed to do this. It would likely require an owner vote, however, so don't expect to see it clarified anytime soon.
 
obcidian said:
Killing blow with a Silver piece, OTOH, should not be allowed, regardless of precedence. Sometimes, bad calls are made, that doesn't mean we should keep them.
Click to expand...

Humor me defending my actions as a PC, just for a moment...

The idea that I can choke a monster immune to normal damage to death by simply having a silver or gold coin in my hand, sure, I can see that being an abuse of intent.

But flexing my brain slightly, I can still slit your throat with one silver, roughed on the ground. (yes, I will kill you with my *tea* cup)

Those kind of calls are snap decisions by staff, made as a quick fix. They represent a one-time modification of the rules (for that particular scene) in the absence of true understanding of the rule's *intent*

The *intent* of those snap decisions is not to circumvent the normal rules process permanently, but to allow the game to continue without needing a half hour hold.

I've used both gold and silver in this fashion to administer a well-reasoned killing blow (in this chapter, as well as others) and I don't think it was a "bad call." I think it was appropriate to the scene... just that once.

That said,

I think you should be able to KB for normal with a wand, just like anything else... unless a charge is expended, generating the elemental carrier for the killing stroke. Generating that elemental carrier should follow all the rules for the *use* of the item, not just its *potential* ability to make fire.

How do High Magic abilities like "Channel Earth/Chaos" factor in? Does a wand count as "those weapons in which the character has skill"? Oak of the arcane and those skills/abilities make much more sense, since it uses a standard weapon skill.

I am an earth templar... compared to how OP golems are, I'm not sweating a wand KB on me with an elemental carrier.

In closing: I think we should all just admit that Hugh and Alavatar win.
 
Fortunately or unfortunately, the owners voted against allowing Killing Blows with any per-day spells/items/etc. So - although we have at times allowed this in the past - we can't allow it going forward. :(
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top