Magic To Hit- Do we need it?

[mikestrauss]

If you don't like it, don't use it.

Right now, there's no reason that a Plot team can't edit the Monster DB, so if they don't want "Magic to hit" in their chapter, they don't have to use it. If we removed it from the standard DB and a Plot Team did want to use it, they still could.

Seattle hasn't (intentionally) had a "Magic to Hit" creature in about a year and a half. We're not using the standard DB (and the time we accidentally let one in it was because we needed more undead cards quickly so we just pulled them off the other database without checking. Stupid spectrals). We also don't have the Pillow Party problem that much. Our local re-occuring BBG is totally killable, resurrects, and isn't that much more powerful than his minions; they're all just higher powered, work together, and are willing to flee combat. We do still occasionally have that problem when we're using a different BBG, but we've tried to come up with other creative solutions to that. (My favorite thus far was giving one a bunch of Spellstrike Berserk and Spellstrike Repels. In succession, it can wreck those parties.)

"Magic to hit" isn't super important, and most people who have DAs have greater than +0, but really it's a chapter issue.

Just checking, is this common knowledge in your game?

I ask because a policy of not using "Magic to Hit" monsters (or at least "immune to normal") means that anyone who memorizes Magic Blade or uses high magic on "Magic Aura" (or whatever the official name is) is getting screwed over by a plot team that is intentionally making that spell and high magic ability useless. As a player, I know I would be pissed if a plot team had a chapter policy of making abilities and skills worthless without warning players.

-MS

EDIT: There is no "Magic Aura" High Magic ability. I was mixing up rules in my head. Feel free to ignore that portion of post.

 

[tieran]

Just checking, is this common knowledge in your game?

I ask because a policy of not using "Magic to Hit" monsters (or at least "immune to normal") means that anyone who memorizes Magic Blade or uses high magic on "Magic Aura" (or whatever the official name is) is getting screwed over by a plot team that is intentionally making that spell and high magic ability useless. As a player, I know I would be pissed if a plot team had a chapter policy of making abilities and skills worthless without warning players.

-MS

Unless I completely missed it, there is no such high magic ability. I'll totally concede the point on the spell, just pointing out that it is not as big an issue as you are making it out to be.

 

[RiddickDale]

1. There is no high magic ability to swing magic.
2. Just because there aren't magic to hit monsters doesn't mean magic blade is wasted. There are TONS of monsters that are immune to normal weapons where a Magic carrier would work just fine.

 

[mikestrauss]

Just checking, is this common knowledge in your game?

I ask because a policy of not using "Magic to Hit" monsters (or at least "immune to normal") means that anyone who memorizes Magic Blade or uses high magic on "Magic Aura" (or whatever the official name is) is getting screwed over by a plot team that is intentionally making that spell and high magic ability useless. As a player, I know I would be pissed if a plot team had a chapter policy of making abilities and skills worthless without warning players.

-MS

Unless I completely missed it, there is no such high magic ability. I'll totally concede the point on the spell, just pointing out that it is not as big an issue as you are making it out to be.

My bad. I was confusing it with the Earth Blade ability that earth high magic gets. I'll edit my post to tell people to ignore my stupid.

-MS

 

[RuffianDragon]

I've had very long and thoughtful conversations on the Monster Database with several friends and some of the abilities we can use as plot...

Magic-To-Hit should stay and the plot team/desk jockey should know when and how to use it effectively.

Some monsters have it because it is thematically appropriate. Some have it because they are just so strong that nothing short of magical weapons can hurt them. As a desk jockey or a plot guy you should think about why IG this monster would only be hurt by magic. It can used as an OOG crowd control as well, yes, and like Paul said, you could always have the "Death Blossom" abilities to do the same thing. Sure, overusing it takes the fun out of the game for some/most lowbies, but with Magic Blade as a spell and the chance to gobbie an LCO DA scroll in most chapters, I believe Magic-To-Hit is something that can stay as long as it's used effectively for the story.

 

[Dan Nickname Beshers]

1. There is no high magic ability to swing magic.
2. Just because there aren't magic to hit monsters doesn't mean magic blade is wasted. There are TONS of monsters that are immune to normal weapons where a Magic carrier would work just fine.

2. With Elemental Blade available at level 4 and magic to hit removed, magic blade absolutely becomes a useless spell.

 

[RiddickDale]

Valid point. I forgot about the original question.

I presented a solution earlier... nuke the spell or change its base function.

 

[Dan Nickname Beshers]

Change the definition of the Magic damage type so that instead of being used to bypass damage type immunities it is used to bypass damage reduction and thresholds.

 

[Undrask]

I think that things that are broken like this are often best corrected by plot, not more rules.

/noobpinion

 

[obcidian_bandit]

Seattle hasn't (intentionally) had a "Magic to Hit" creature in about a year and a half.

Just checking, is this common knowledge in your game?

Basically? None of our common creatures are out of the standard DB. The PCs spent some time at the beginning of the campaign learning the creatures and what affects them, just like you'd do anywhere. We also didn't have any undead for over a year, so Earth Blade was effectively worthless, too. After a game or two, I imagine that people stopped memorizing it. I assume that the same thing happened with Magic Blade. Our general feeling about scaling is that everyone should be useful most of the time. We wanted to rep our monsters really well, so we made custom latex masks, cowels, and other costuming for them. We don't have "tabard beasts" and I haven't heard "What do I see?" in over a year. The trade-off to doing that is that we have fewer creature types to work with since we only have so much costuming. Not only is the benefit to our game that everybody looks better, but our players know that we're going to have consistent creatures from game to game, with occasional new things or minor deviations. I'd rather walk into a chapter where someone could tell me, "Oh, don't memorize Magic Blade, but take a pile of Ice Bolts," then have someone say to me, "It's a grab-bag of creatures, I have no idea what's coming, just memorize a bit of everything so that you can use some of it."

Magic Blade isn't terribly useful, but a Sleep spell is an instant takeout vs some really powerful creatures if you know what to throw it at. We like to reward players who do their homework and figure out what works, which necessarily means "disadvantaging" people who aren't going to put in that time/effort/RP. We're not making any skills worthless, but I don't see any problem with making particular spells worthless. You can always choose to put a different spell in that slot, so your Build is still useful. People just have to learn what's useful in the place that they'll be playing. If I'm going to a heavily-elemental themed chapter, I'll memorize an Elemental Blade and some Banishes. If I'm going to Deadlands, you better believe that I'll memorize an Earth Blade and a Sanctucrate. I'm not going to get pissed if I don't have anything to throw all my Turn Undead spells at in Trollhouse, TN though. A few minutes of Forum RP can make sure I'm memorizing a fun tree ahead of time.