new lock pick rules

T

tolgar undershaft

Artisan
San Francisco Staff
Ok so i seen the new rules and though I am happy that we have a system that does not require us to actually carry lock picking tools and to pick it I have some questions / concerns.

1) As the item of the lock is created by "crete trap skill" do you require trap making or ledg to lock the item.
2) The locks that people already have in game will they be given an apporiate tag for the locks they have?
3) Seeing as it is as simple as undoing a knot tied to a lock to pick I am not sure the need for diffaculty ratings. unless you made the player draw from some sort of beed system. my example of how to redo this is below.

Basically you have locks of different ratings. say 1 - 20. A person with the ledg skill will be given 1 white bead for this skill. For every level of create trap he will be given an additional 1 white bead. In a bag to be drawn from you add total number of beads as the lock level is. so if 10 dificulty you add 10 beads. So lets say someone is picking a level 10 lock with his ledg skill and 5 levels of create trap. This would give him 6 white beads and 4 blak beads to be pulled from a bag that the marshal would carry. On a sucessfull pull of a white bead the lock opens. If a black bead you must spend 5 min in game time in order to attempt again. *could be explained that a lock broke inside and your getting the piece out whatever! This would allow for the time it would take to pick an actually hard lock verse an easy lock. The current way I see the rule is that it is no point in purchasing a high level lock when it is just a few knots that someone unties.

So comments / feedback / anyone else have an idea for locks. I would love to see this brought so that we can have the best set for this special rulling for cali people.
 
tolgar undershaft said:
1) As the item of the lock is created by "crete trap skill" do you require trap making or ledg to lock the item.
Click to expand...
No skill is required to use a lock. Legerdemain is required to attempt to pick said lock.
2) The locks that people already have in game will they be given an apporiate tag for the locks they have?
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If brought to logistics at the April weekend event we will give tags for any lock physrep that has previously been approved as a pickable lock by a marshal. Note that there is no requirement that a lock physrep be proved to pickable going forward, but we will only issue complementary tags for locks that have already been approved. Any new locks will need to be acquired in game.
[3) Seeing as it is as simple as undoing a knot tied to a lock to pick I am not sure the need for diffaculty ratings. unless you made the player draw from some sort of beed system. my example of how to redo this is below.
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The only limit on how complex your knot work can be is how much cord you have to work with, so I daresay that more cord will correspond to a more complex lock rather nicely. However, as noted this is a work in progress and we will look at making changes if they show themselves to be necessary. To that end, we welcome all input, but please be sure to email it to me so that I have all suggestions correlated in one place.
 
I had asked someone else to post this for me as I didn't feel it was my place having decided not to play in the chapter but I have to voice my opinion on this - being a rogue at heart.

My thought is that these lockpick rules are not needed. This change in the rules would be:

-Have a period looking lock with nylon ropes hanging from them with lots of knots on them.
-Have PC produce tools to pick it
-Untie the ropes from the lock

The current rule is
-Have a luggage lock which can be picked by a paperclip or safety pin
-Have PC produce tools to pick it
-PC picks it

I think the current rule is much better. Even if a luggage lock isn't 'period looking' it does allow for the actual picking of the lock. And you only need a paperclip or a safety pin. There is no need for actual lockpicks which means there's no risk of being arrested. Even the period locks can be picked with a safety pin or a dental tool although they do take a little bit of skill - which, IMO, is the real thrill of the act of lock picking - not untying ropes. Otherwise, just get shatter scrolls and be done with it.

Or you can go with another type of lock to be picked. There are Chinese locks that look cool AND are rather easy to pick via shoving a piece of metal into them - such as this one for less than $5 including shipping - http://cgi.ebay.com/Distinctive-Rare-An ... 19c3dc6cfb

Or have cool looking ones like these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-Cabinet-Chines ... 27b96a338c
http://cgi.ebay.com/Chinese-old-tyle-co ... 3365e8a41d
http://cgi.ebay.com/Chinese-old-tyle-co ... 3365e4026e

Heck, I'll even develop period lock that can be picked by shaking it if the player base is really finding it that hard to pick a simple luggage lock.

Come on people, stop making this game less immersive. What will be next? Rock Paper Scissors for combat?

Sincerely,
Mark Mensch

P.S. - I am sending a copy of this on to the appropriate email addy so that it is in place with all the other suggestions.

Edit: I applaud the idea of making locks a production item and the use of create traps to make locks, but do so by strengthening them or even being able to damage anyone who attempts to shatter them.
 
markusdark said:
-Have a luggage lock which can be picked by a paperclip or safety pin
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The current rule is only that the lock be proved to be pickable. It does not set any limits on what type of hardware should be necessary for doing so. Possessing some of the hardware which may be necessary for doing so is considered intent to commit a crime in the county we play in. In our opinion it is easier to head the whole issue off at the pass *and* make locks a bigger part of the game by posting these alternate rules.

Thank you for your suggestions, however. We will keep them for reference in case we decide to go a different direction with this.
 
Possessing lockpicks is not considered intent to commit a crime in the county of Santa Clara. It is if you are carrying them AND intend on committing a crime - something that could be shown inaccurate by showing them the costuming and foam weapons weapons in the car. But just don't bring lockpicks. Dental tools are completely legal and work wonders on the simple locks.

The current rule also doesn't state that you need to use ropes knots in counties where you might be arrested for carrying lockpicks.

What makes more sense to keeping the atmosphere of the game?

Making a rule informing people to only bring dental tools and using only luggage locks

or

Making a rule that removes the fun and immersion of picking a lock?

I would be interested in who constituted "our" opinion - as I am sure most players who are paying to play the game would be interested in as well.

At least this reinforces my decision to not play at the chapter anymore.
 
Marcusdark,

I'll admit my bias here. I'm not much of a rogue. My eyes cross just thinking about trying to pick a lock. Knowing my luck many innocent people would be hurt in the process.

But, Is it possible that you are being a bit harsh on their rules update considering you (admittedly) have no interest in playing there? The staff made some updates based on a number of circumstances, and, while I respect your right to have an opinion, I don't necassarily think its fair to be so biting if this change really doesn't effect you.

Lets cut these guys/gals some slack a bit? Maybe? Running a game is hard enough.

Cheers,
Stephen
Chair
National Publicity Committee
 
On the other side of the coin here Mark talks to lots of people who still play in our chapter and just wants to see the game thrive and do well. I for one do not even remember the last time a lock was used in game except for 1 chest that says behind a ward and my own personal one i bring and put up in my inn sometimes. This is a skill that is not used lots and i think that if we posted up for suggestions first before making a change that takes away from the real feel then we could have had lots of ideas to play with first. The spirit of the game wants us all to have fun. I personaly would rater see no lock get picked and we don't get the special treasure inside, then have rope tied off of a lock and be able to pick it.
 
tolgar undershaft said:
On the other side of the coin here Mark talks to lots of people who still play in our chapter and just wants to see the game thrive and do well. I for one do not even remember the last time a lock was used in game except for 1 chest that says behind a ward and my own personal one i bring and put up in my inn sometimes. This is a skill that is not used lots and i think that if we posted up for suggestions first before making a change that takes away from the real feel then we could have had lots of ideas to play with first. The spirit of the game wants us all to have fun. I personaly would rater see no lock get picked and we don't get the special treasure inside, then have rope tied off of a lock and be able to pick it.
Click to expand...

As the one who originally proposed the idea, I can assure you that taking away from the game was never in thought. Rather, the spirit of the rules is that in order to perform the picking of a lock, you actually have to pick it. You have to have tools and do it.

I'd like to re-stress that in Santa Clara County, where our main site is located, simply getting pulled over and having lockpicks is considered felonius intent.

With that in mind, what I proposed, and what has been added to and posted was an adaptation, an acceptable variation if you will, to picking locks. By making it so you must untie the little knots, you are still performing an action that takes time, equivalent to how difficult the lock is. You must still present tools in order to do so. The spirit of the rule has been kept entirely intact. The physicality of it is the only thing that's changed.
 
tolgar undershaft said:
On the other side of the coin here Mark talks to lots of people who still play in our chapter and just wants to see the game thrive and do well. I for one do not even remember the last time a lock was used in game except for 1 chest that says behind a ward and my own personal one i bring and put up in my inn sometimes. This is a skill that is not used lots and i think that if we posted up for suggestions first before making a change that takes away from the real feel then we could have had lots of ideas to play with first. The spirit of the game wants us all to have fun. I personaly would rater see no lock get picked and we don't get the special treasure inside, then have rope tied off of a lock and be able to pick it.
Click to expand...

1. At the top of the this thread you said you were happy about the change.
2. I see trying to undo knots as far more active aka "doing something" then pulling beads from a bag.
3. Let's wait and see how hard it is for people to get these knots undone before we knock it as too easy.
 
I am glad that a statement about not needing actual lock picks are needed. I always thought it was a dangerous idea to carry them on you. I love the fact that you guys are comming up with new ways to help improve and possible get other people to start taking the skill. What I don't like is the rope part of the idea. There are many different locks out there that do not require lock pick set to open. Simple luggage locks get a fingernail file and a paperclip and your good to go. It is a bit tricky i guess when you go from what can be picked using lock pick set vs normal random tools and bits of metal. I have already suggested a few ways to do lock pick without having to actually pick the lock. As well as hopefully by april have a proto type of lock that can be picked that I would be willing to have made / make and donate to the chapter for use as well.

Does this effect my char? No. Do i think that most people will have an issue with this new change? No. I am only trying to offer other ways of thinking about how to work with pick lock. I will submit all my ideas to plot again and hopefully you all will have a chance to review them give / take feedback or toss them out and say this is the way it will be. Either way I am ok with it. Just trying to do my part to make our chapter better.
 
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