Sheakhan
Adept
Just curious on a few things, and as our chapter has asked we begin transitioning to the National forums, I figured I'd field these questions here. I used to larp with SOLAR when I lived in Florida, and as the system there is roughly based on the same basic ruleset, I've had a few curiosities that were either answered there but ambiguous here, or that seemed intuitive there but not as much with Alliance.
1. Ritual Creation: Is there a precedence for ritual creation OOG or IG? Obviously rituals had to be crafted in the first place, as scholars discovered the potential uses of higher magics. Is creating them or modifying them prior to casting even possible within the rules here?
2. Staff Fighting: The rules seemed a little ambiguous, but I'm curious: Can you fight with a staff and shortsword provided you possess Two Weapon Fighting, and only use the staff as a blocker in the same fashion as fighting with a bow and sword?
3. Rogue/Fighter combat abilities: These classes seem wildly underpowered and expensive in comparison to Scholars (specifically celestial). Keep in mind that in Solar, there are no lesser prerequisites like Back Attack and Critical Attack. The skill tree goes: Weapon Skill>Backstab/Weapon Prof>Assassinate(Dodge)/Slay(Parry).
In SOLAR, assassinates and slays are interchangeable at each logistics period with their defensive counterpart, so you can choose which you anticipate needing more. In addition there are no higher power abilities (save for Fatal Blow) and Assassinate and Slay read much more like Alliance's Terminate and Eviscerate, and are not stopped by any commonly possessed abilities as Alliance allows. This is not the issue, merely a preface.
What I'm curious to know is... What incentive is there to build a combat Rogue, or an Offensive fighter?
A celestial caster gains the equivalent of an Assassinate or Slay at their first 6th level spell (lightning storm), totaling 38 build. A Rogue can get an assassinate at 38 build as well, the difference however is that Lightning Storm is ranged, does not require you hit a specific target, and cannot be parried, evaded, or riposted, nor blocked by magic armor. In addition to the effective "assassinate+" that a celestial caster gets, they also receive an additional maximum total of 230 1/day damage they can sling around at will between all of their damage spells available up to that level. Whereas a rogue gains an additional +2 bonus damage to all of their swings against living targets provided they are hitting them in the back, and nothing else. This does not account for purchasing anything aside from the necessary skills to get to that assassinate on the rogue side, nor does it account for the scholar being able to drop say, half of that damage and memorize utility and defensive spells instead, which in my opinion makes them even more powerful than if they were slinging raw damage.
A more fair comparison is the fighter (who gets a better deal than the rogue) at 39 build total, and the Earth caster who gets a worse deal than Celestial at 64 build for his first 30 damage skill. The fighter gaining a +2 bonus damage to any target anytime for their trouble, and the earth caster gaining an additional potential 128 1/day damage or 64/day with healing or utility/defensive spells.
The issue I'm seeing is that the disparity grows exponentially, with it costing a fighter/rogue another 34/33 build to score a damage increase and another 1/day with limited potential (raising their total to +3 weapon damage and 100/day abilities), whereas a celestial caster/earth caster can score an additional 75/50 damage 1/day for 8/11 build respectively.
So in short, as a player who builds their character to fit their persona and roleplay, but also desires a character that is useful and capable of staying alive, is there any likelihood that, as a rogue, I can expect a change in this disparity, or am I going to always be several steps behind even casters half my level simply because of the role I've chosen to play? Perhaps I've grown accustomed to SOLAR, and rogues/fighters being on par with their spellcaster counterparts (though still somewhat less powerful, as it should be, magic is scary stuff).
On that note, if there is likely to be a rule change to fix what I (and from what I can gather, many others) see as an issue, how will that effect me? Will I be permitted to rebuild my character in light of the rule change to make use of the adjustments? Will it be done automatically? As it stands now, I have three Back Attacks that I sorely wish I could trade in for alchemy or celestial levels due to the inherent weakness of rogue combat skills.
4. Double Assassinate: Provided I had the build and the incentive to work up to two assassinates, and florentine or two-weapon fighting, am I allowed to call Double Assassinates? I'm aware the verbal would be 100 Assassinate (or 50 Assassinate if striking two separate targets) if this is allowed. To clarify, in the system I am used to, a character with two assassinates could strike one target with two weapons and expend two assassinates, or strike two separate targets with one weapon each and do the same. Is there a rule allowing/disallowing this in Alliance? Has it ever come up?
5. Taking Trophies: If I subdue a player character or any creature capable of resurrection and, for example, hack off it's hand to keep as a trophy or for other nefarious purposes... Is there a way to keep said trophy from dissipating when the victim is restored/resurrects? I'm uncertain if this question is something answered by the scope of the rules, or something one would have to find out in game, hence my posing it.
I believe I've asked enough questions for now, I hope it's not too much trouble answering them!
Thanks for your time,
Keegan.
1. Ritual Creation: Is there a precedence for ritual creation OOG or IG? Obviously rituals had to be crafted in the first place, as scholars discovered the potential uses of higher magics. Is creating them or modifying them prior to casting even possible within the rules here?
2. Staff Fighting: The rules seemed a little ambiguous, but I'm curious: Can you fight with a staff and shortsword provided you possess Two Weapon Fighting, and only use the staff as a blocker in the same fashion as fighting with a bow and sword?
3. Rogue/Fighter combat abilities: These classes seem wildly underpowered and expensive in comparison to Scholars (specifically celestial). Keep in mind that in Solar, there are no lesser prerequisites like Back Attack and Critical Attack. The skill tree goes: Weapon Skill>Backstab/Weapon Prof>Assassinate(Dodge)/Slay(Parry).
In SOLAR, assassinates and slays are interchangeable at each logistics period with their defensive counterpart, so you can choose which you anticipate needing more. In addition there are no higher power abilities (save for Fatal Blow) and Assassinate and Slay read much more like Alliance's Terminate and Eviscerate, and are not stopped by any commonly possessed abilities as Alliance allows. This is not the issue, merely a preface.
What I'm curious to know is... What incentive is there to build a combat Rogue, or an Offensive fighter?
A celestial caster gains the equivalent of an Assassinate or Slay at their first 6th level spell (lightning storm), totaling 38 build. A Rogue can get an assassinate at 38 build as well, the difference however is that Lightning Storm is ranged, does not require you hit a specific target, and cannot be parried, evaded, or riposted, nor blocked by magic armor. In addition to the effective "assassinate+" that a celestial caster gets, they also receive an additional maximum total of 230 1/day damage they can sling around at will between all of their damage spells available up to that level. Whereas a rogue gains an additional +2 bonus damage to all of their swings against living targets provided they are hitting them in the back, and nothing else. This does not account for purchasing anything aside from the necessary skills to get to that assassinate on the rogue side, nor does it account for the scholar being able to drop say, half of that damage and memorize utility and defensive spells instead, which in my opinion makes them even more powerful than if they were slinging raw damage.
A more fair comparison is the fighter (who gets a better deal than the rogue) at 39 build total, and the Earth caster who gets a worse deal than Celestial at 64 build for his first 30 damage skill. The fighter gaining a +2 bonus damage to any target anytime for their trouble, and the earth caster gaining an additional potential 128 1/day damage or 64/day with healing or utility/defensive spells.
The issue I'm seeing is that the disparity grows exponentially, with it costing a fighter/rogue another 34/33 build to score a damage increase and another 1/day with limited potential (raising their total to +3 weapon damage and 100/day abilities), whereas a celestial caster/earth caster can score an additional 75/50 damage 1/day for 8/11 build respectively.
So in short, as a player who builds their character to fit their persona and roleplay, but also desires a character that is useful and capable of staying alive, is there any likelihood that, as a rogue, I can expect a change in this disparity, or am I going to always be several steps behind even casters half my level simply because of the role I've chosen to play? Perhaps I've grown accustomed to SOLAR, and rogues/fighters being on par with their spellcaster counterparts (though still somewhat less powerful, as it should be, magic is scary stuff).
On that note, if there is likely to be a rule change to fix what I (and from what I can gather, many others) see as an issue, how will that effect me? Will I be permitted to rebuild my character in light of the rule change to make use of the adjustments? Will it be done automatically? As it stands now, I have three Back Attacks that I sorely wish I could trade in for alchemy or celestial levels due to the inherent weakness of rogue combat skills.
4. Double Assassinate: Provided I had the build and the incentive to work up to two assassinates, and florentine or two-weapon fighting, am I allowed to call Double Assassinates? I'm aware the verbal would be 100 Assassinate (or 50 Assassinate if striking two separate targets) if this is allowed. To clarify, in the system I am used to, a character with two assassinates could strike one target with two weapons and expend two assassinates, or strike two separate targets with one weapon each and do the same. Is there a rule allowing/disallowing this in Alliance? Has it ever come up?
5. Taking Trophies: If I subdue a player character or any creature capable of resurrection and, for example, hack off it's hand to keep as a trophy or for other nefarious purposes... Is there a way to keep said trophy from dissipating when the victim is restored/resurrects? I'm uncertain if this question is something answered by the scope of the rules, or something one would have to find out in game, hence my posing it.
I believe I've asked enough questions for now, I hope it's not too much trouble answering them!
Thanks for your time,
Keegan.
