No Effect for purposes of Powerful Meditation

Polare

Count
Alliance Rules
Moderator
Seattle Staff
Powerful Meditation explicitly states that it can be used on a spell or skill which was "negated by a defense.". Under the Defenses section, No Effect is specifically listed as a defense. Not sure of the confusion here, but Powerful Meditation definitely allows meditation when something you use is stopped by a "No Effect" call.

An ability which hits a target and is stopped by a defense (including "No Effect") cannot otherwise be Meditated. It is materially different from a miss.

Note that things which hit an in-game barrier (like a Ward, Wizard Lock, Circle of Power or Wall of Force) which cannot be physrepped to stop an attack count as a miss. If you throw a spell at someone and it passes through an active CoP, they are certainly not affected, but it's as though you threw and hit the wall of a building. They might call "No Effect" to inform you that they aren't taking it, although it might be more proper for them to point at the Circle and note "Active Circle, I'm not taking that".

-Bryan Gregory
ARC
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
@Polare

Does a Prison count as a barrier? While it’s an effect on a target, it also functions as a barrier in every single way, and is often utilized as such (someone protecting an ally using a Storm spell, as an example).
 

Polare

Count
Alliance Rules
Moderator
Seattle Staff
If you hit someone in a Prison, they call "No Effect". That's a Defense call. In-game it might thematically work like a Wall of Force spun tightly around someone, but unlike Wall of Force, it has a specific defensive call associated with it.

Calling "No Effect" = using a Defense. Without Powerful Meditation, you aren't getting that attack back.

-Bryan
 

Tantarus

Squire
So.... If an npc is slow to call there defenses against you, You get punished by losing uses of your skill that you would not have if they had called a defense in a timely manner?
 

Kitaruen

Squire
Owner
Chicago Staff
Keep in mind the 2 second rule goes for NPC and PC alike. So they should be calling in a timely manner.

Not to say larger cards do not ever need to have a moment to play catch up when hit by a dozen effects at the same time.

I am sure a Marshall will happily give back skills used via a misunderstanding in most chapters.

With that said it's smart play to test what effects stick or don't on a card.

If I did not address your main concern please elaborate here or speak with your local staff.
 
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Tantarus

Squire
Take Backies seems fine. But if you extend the mediate to cover no effects it makes it all a moot point. As well as helping out newer players by letting them land there fewer skills or not get pushed for not having the right imbuement.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
If you hit someone in a Prison, they call "No Effect". That's a Defense call. In-game it might thematically work like a Wall of Force spun tightly around someone, but unlike Wall of Force, it has a specific defensive call associated with it.

Calling "No Effect" = using a Defense. Without Powerful Meditation, you aren't getting that attack back.

-Bryan
People call no effect when they are inside of a circle or on the other side of a wall of force. Usually, “No effect, active Circle of Power.” However, are you saying that that is the wrong call?
 

Polare

Count
Alliance Rules
Moderator
Seattle Staff
People call no effect when they are inside of a circle or on the other side of a wall of force. Usually, “No effect, active Circle of Power.” However, are you saying that that is the wrong call?
Please reread the last paragraph of my earlier post, which explicitly addresses this:

Note that things which hit an in-game barrier (like a Ward, Wizard Lock, Circle of Power or Wall of Force) which cannot be physrepped to stop an attack count as a miss. If you throw a spell at someone and it passes through an active CoP, they are certainly not affected, but it's as though you threw and hit the wall of a building. They might call "No Effect" to inform you that they aren't taking it, although it might be more proper for them to point at the Circle and note "Active Circle, I'm not taking that".
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
>.> No, I...uh..okay.
 

Manflesh

Artisan
RB 2.0 pg 95 said:
During the time in which the player is saying [a counted action], he or she is completely vulnerable to attack and cannot use any game skills except Bane, Cloak, Dodge, Evade, Phase, and Resist. These skills cause the counted action to be interrupted. The skill is used up, and the count is aborted and must be started again.
Not to drudge up an old topic, but if No Effect is considered an official defense, shouldn't it be added to the listed defenses usable against an attack made during a counted action? Or was that intentionally left out?
 
I believe it was left out intentionally because that list is Game Ability defenses, and Immunities aren't Game Abilities; you don't lose an Immunity if you're Drained, for instance.

It's also possible it was left out because those are Smart defenses that require the expenditure of a skill or ability; Immunity is a Dumb defense, similar to a Weapon Shield, and requires no effort from the creature to use.
 

Manflesh

Artisan
The very next sentence in the rulebook section mentions how to treat dumb protective spells like Weapon Shield and Spell Shield while being attacked during a counted action. Does the monster ability, Immunity fall into that section? If so, it should be added to the section and I suppose this post then should be more appropriately placed in the rulebook feedback thread.
 
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