On Armor

What do you wear?

  • Total voters
    57
Honestly I think that the current armor value system is too harsh. I think if someone has a decent chest piece rep that looks in period. Let them wear full value for their class after acquiring the correct armor tag in game.

Also Rick makes a good point. Real armor also takes build to use easily where as arcane doesn't. This should be removed as well. Perhaps 2 mins to reset without blacksmith, 1 with?
 
Tantarus said:
Honestly I think that the current armor value system is too harsh. I think if someone has a decent chest piece rep that looks in period. Let them wear full value for their class after acquiring the correct armor tag in game.

Also Rick makes a good point. Real armor also takes build to use easily where as arcane doesn't. This should be removed as well. Perhaps 2 mins to reset without blacksmith, 1 with?
Click to expand...

I agree: real armor needs a boost or 3.
 
The armor system needs a revamp, stupidly so.

1) A more rewarding physical armor system would put an advantage towards players with more OOG financial advantages. Repping good armor is incredibly more expensive than any other kind of rep in our game. A cheap boffer is still a boffer that does its job as well as a not-cheap boffer.

2) A more rewarding Arcane Armor system rewards the IG powerful and wealthy disproportionately to other rituals, because it's the only one that provides an OOG advantage. This can be mitigated by LCO rituals that can be Gobbied, but that's not guaranteed in every chapter (or to carry between them), and it still feels a bit like pay-to-play, and can drive away newer players.

3) Not being able to upgrade an existing armor tag to a better tag feels weird. I have breastplate, but now I want some greaves, so I need to have an entire suit made instead of just the add-on, which requires a large amount of pp. Additionally, we should totally have a "parts and location" system instead of a blanket armor value system, and eliminate bonus armor for looking great, because while it's cool in theory, it's totally something that can become awkward when you play in multiple chapters and a marshal can invalidate your armor tag because they think you should only get 4 pts but not 6.
 
Honestly, if I was going to revise the armor system, it'd be a purely in-game thing. Classes would come with a base armor point rating, and could buy more later in the game much like how formalists have High Magic now. Once you've put your first ~100 build in to get to the equivalent of Formal Magic (ie 4 backstabs, or 4 profs and all the trimmings), you can start investing in skills to provide in-game armor points without needing to rep them. Flavor them however you like, with an in-game explanation that fighters are just that tough, so they've learned to better take a hit/rogues have learned to roll with it/mages have learned to more efficiently power Arcane Armor. Cross classes pick which they get.

Then remove AA as a ritual and point-based armor tags from the game. Armor tags are simply yes/no propositions, like weapon tags, that require an armor rep of some kind. It either is armor, or isn't. AA becomes a high magic ability that solely lets you have armor points without wearing or tagging a rep. Poof, no more have/have not problem for OOG resources, and costuming options improve because people can wear things that look like armor while not being practical protectives.

Heck, replace AA with an 'Armor Aura' ritual like Damage Aura for weapons that makes a rep worth more points than you can usually wear, and it'll still be popular without being the be-all end-all must have ritual.
 
I agree with Evan. I think there should be a larger benefit gap between physical armor and arcane armor. 10 points is not a whole lot when you think that you can get the benefit of being noiseless, weightless, and heatless. Who wouldn't sacrifice 10 points of armor or even a few build (not counting formals as you get so much extra for that, and AA isn't is primary purchase reason) to get 30 points of weightless armor?

I was going to write up a bit but Muir's write up is pretty awesome. The only downside is that some of us don't buy the extraneous fluff skills. Like my rogue has no evades or dodges, and due to that, he would never increase his armor for a very long time. Also, rogue's have a slightly higher build cost as they get similar skills but more (evades come more often).

But it's a great basis! I would like to just limit it to the 100 points spent in skills.
 
The extraneous skills were for a matter of scaling.

4 Proficiencies + 4 Disarms + 2 Slays, + 1 Stun Limb + 1 Shatter + 1 Riposte + 1 Eviscerate = 92 Build for a Fighter (+ at least one weapon skill)
4 Backstabs + 4 Disarms + 2 Assassinates + 1 Stun Limb +1 Shatter + 1 Terminate + 1 Riposte = 89 Build for a Rogue (+ at least one weapon skill)
Read/Write + Read Magic + 4/4/4/4/4/4/3/2/1 + 1 Level Formal = 83 Build for a Celestial Scholar (110 with full 4 columns)
First Aid + Read/Write+ Healing Arts + 4/4/4/4/4/4/3/2/1 + 1 Level Formal = 83 Build for an Earth Scholar (110 with full 4 columns)

So I figure given that Formal Magic has been used as the scaling point for second tier abilities with High Magic, about the 100 build mark is a fairly equivalent spot for all the classes to start getting second tier abilities.
 
I agree with the ~100 build 100%. I just don't think forcing players to get disarms/slays/ect should be required. I realize they already require some skills to get the next skills but those aren't required to increase health (and for this purpose, it's almost identical; how many hits can I take and how that is tied to build spent).

High Magic really isn't optional for scholars. It's the goal. Rituals are optional, but getting bigger and better magics is really the goal for scholars. I have yet to meet a Scholar that hasn't taken at least one level of formal (typically 5 for earth for that rebirth). Increasing number of spells is similar to increasing backstabs/weapon profs. Its what the class does. But I have for a long time wanted something similar for fighters/rogues to aim for like a High Magic: Fighters/Rogues edition. :( Anyway that's for another discussion.
 
Something like "Martial Mastery", a High Magic alternative for the martial classes would definitely be pretty cool.
 
If you're going down the route of tying armor value to build you could do something similar to Body gain. You could do two values if you keep AA, one for Physical Armor and one for Arcane Armor specific to each class. Leave skills out of it (and remove tying Arcane Armor to Formal).
 
Alavatar said:
If you're going down the route of tying armor value to build you could do something similar to Body gain. You could do two values if you keep AA, one for Physical Armor and one for Arcane Armor specific to each class. Leave skills out of it (and remove tying Arcane Armor to Formal).
Click to expand...

Now that you mention it... it sounds like an extension of body. Why then, have two values? :/ Ugh, armor rules.... lol
 
Because Armor can be refit and Body can't. Why not just make: Armor = 1/2 Body +1 for every purchase of Wear Extra Armor (with a maximum of your Body)? Monsters, of course, would have to be modified so that their current body is split 2/3 body, 1/3 armor.

Edit: Or not - Monsters don't need to work the same way as PCs.
 
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Armor also is a buffer against taking carrier effects when you are hit like Drain, Nausea or Death.
 
Or pretty much any carrier that people love to deliver via spell/poison.
 
I understand how Armor works now.

I was saying if it scaled with level. You are getting twice your life. It isn't reliant on physrepping it. I like a physrep system, but I do wish there was a way to increase your physical armor so that way there is a benefit to wearing it.

Arcane is great and light but should be limited as there is no rep and its free repair. But physical armor should have a higher (double or more) limit so its still a viable option. Arcane armor and a preserve for 30 is 1500 gobbies in Oregon which is $300 or less depending on donations needed/NPC/Staff/etc. For a lot more, I can get a lot of steel armor that looks amazing. It lasts longer, yes, but its easier to destroy and costs a lot more IG if it keeps getting destroyed (Acid/explosive traps suck...)
 
*shrugs* I'd love to see more physical armor. When I NPC I am the guy who goes out in armor on a regular basis. It is hot/cold, heavy, tiring and makes it more difficult to avoid packets... but man does it look cool.

I'd prefer a system that gave benefits/drawbacks to each type of armor. Boy howdy would I.
 
That's why I always used both. I had 30pt AA with Cael but still wore my plate. As I stated earlier in this thread, my plans were to keep collecting plate until he was fully steel-clad. I think it looked incredible. Stupid Cael, having to go and die. :mad:

I think an armor system rewrite needs to happen. This has been discussed ad infinitum on these forums about how to do it and I, unfortunately, do not have any input that hasn't been discussed before. Be it increasing the amount of armor you get per location from armor, or armor-only enchants, or having it tied to level or what have you.
 
The problem with a system that rewards for great armor is that it inherently punishes people that can't wear it for financial/physical reasons. This system is supposed to be all you can't be, not all you can afford to be.
 
Harrison Bergeron would roll over in his grave. :/
 
I'll write up a proposal at some point, I suppose. This thread was more to see what folks had found to be a working solution under the current rules.
 
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