Order of defenses

[Balryn]

actally, tho voice is LCO here, there is a little note about voice delivered attacks in the rulebook, and how they can not be dodged (neither can radius attacks as well) found on page 54, deliveries, radius.

So that really is the only time you may want to not have a dodge- is if there is an odd trap or monster ability from plot. But counting on that in combat would be very odd. But I guess it could come up if it's being used here.

~B

 

[Polare]

I guess that the "why" isn't really important here

I'd just like to get an official Seattle rules call on the following:

Can you use Dodge, Parry, and/or Riposte before other defenses?

Yes, certain things have long been assumed about these, but I'd like to have an official ruling to clarify once and for all. Thanks.

-Bryan

 

[Shikar al'Basteua]

Can you use Dodge, Parry, and/or Riposte before other defenses?

Assuming you are referring specifically to spell (or alchemical) defenses, no. You must use your Spell Shield/Magic Armor/Poison Shield/Reflect Magic first.

-Dan

 

[Anonymous]

Wait a minute, where as that might be the letter of the rule, I seriously doubt it's the intent, and I'll throw in the monkey wrench that makes it really confusing:

I can blow a parry on my buddy, but according to this I'd have to know whether or not he has a magic armor on him before I can do it.

 

[Shikar al'Basteua]

Wait a minute, where as that might be the letter of the rule, I seriously doubt it's the intent

Well, as the head of rules it's my job to determine intent from the rules as written.

Since there is no indication in the rules explicitly granting dodge/parry/riposte the ability to preempt a spell defense, and there *are* explicit exceptions listed for Cloak and Bane, I must assume that no exception is to be made for those skills.

Furthermore, from page 57:
Once a spell defense is active, then it will affect the next applicable incoming effect, regardless of whether or not you would have been affected by it. It will then be used up. You cannot choose when to use a spell defense.

This also tells me that it is intended for a spell defense to be used before a skill defense.

To address the question about parrying/riposting an incoming effect for an ally- yes, you must give your ally the opportunity to call a spell defense before deflecting the attack yourself. If they do not call a defense within the time allowed by the rules you may then choose to parry or riposte the blow yourself.

Hopefully this clears up your doubts. If not, you are welcome to submit a request for clarification to manager@neroseattle.com and we will address it at the next staff meeting.

 

[meltedwing]

Does this mean then that if someone parries a slay for you then your magic armor goes away anyway?

~Mark

 

[Shikar al'Basteua]

you must give your ally the opportunity to call a spell defense before deflecting the attack yourself.

Per the rules, if you do not call a spell defense within the time allowed it is considered lost and the effect is taken. If all the rules are being followed, you will not have a magic armor to lose because you will have either called it or lost it because you did not call it.

-Dan

 

[jpariury]

Essentially, the order of events for this should be as follows:

Evil Gregor: 150 Slay!
Innocent Yasmay: Oh my! Taken!
Kerjal on Crack: No! Parry!

OR

Evil Gregor: 150 Slay!
Innocent Yasmay: MAGIC ARMOR!
Kerjal on Crack: Fine then, see if I parry for you!

 

[Carter]

As kind of a sub-question here, what about specialized spell defenses? If I have a Spell Shield and an Elemental Shield, does the Elemental Shield trigger first against elemental attacks, saving the Spell Shield from being wasted on it? I assume so (they're both "next applicable attack" effects, but it would really suck if they both triggered at once), but I'd like some clarification. Same thing for Reflect Magic in place of Spell Shield, or Poison Shield in place of Elemental Shield (I don't think Magic Armor really overlaps with the others anyway).

 

[Polare]

IANAM, but...

1) "15 Elemental Fire" will not trigger a Spell Shield. "I call forth a Flame Bolt!" will not trigger an Elemental Shield. Since effects are theoretically supposed to have only one delivery now (since 9th came out), there can be no attack which would be applicable to both a Spell Shield and an Elemental Shield, since both work against a delivery. Thus, no conflict. The same goes for any other delivery -- Poison for example.

2) Reflect Magic and Spell Shield both specifically state that you can only have one OR the other on at once, not both.

That said, there *are* some confusing cases where the "one delivery" rule comes close to breaking down, but these are generally specifically answered for each effect. For instance, Spellstrikes -- it's a weapon strike, but specifically counts only as a spell.

What gets tricky is when something hits you and you have *both* a defense vs the DELIVERY and a defense vs the EFFECT. For instance, say you have a Resist Element, a Bane vs Fire, and a a Spell Shield and you're hit with a Flame Bolt. Theoretically, any of those 3 defenses would work -- two work vs the EFFECT while one works vs the DELIVERY. Bane specifically allows you to use it before other defenses, but Resist Element does not. So when you're mixing effect and delivery defenses, you really need to know the specifics of the defenses.

Hope this helps.
-Bryan

 

[jpariury]

In the few instances where it appears that two possible defenses might overlap, such as being hit with a Sleep Vorpal-coated weapon, the victim may choose which of the valid defenses is used (in this case, Magic Armor or Poison Shield)