Our Money, Any Ideas?

"How can you trust someone with your life when they lose the most important item in their possession? Maybe someone more capable should be assigned the duty, and that dryad can focus all of her attention to saving lives?

-Davion"

Sir Davion, may I ask if you are referring to myself and implying that I am irresponsible, and that I dropped a magic item?

~Aine
 
All,

I have been casually observing this conversation in the dreamlands, and have now decided to chime in. Until recently, the distribution of goods following an adventuring excursion has been a non-issue. We would assign someone to be the holder of the collective bag and the subsequent goods were then distributed without qualms for theft or inequity.

Accidents do happen every once in a while especially in high stress situations, and items that were once found are subsequently lost. I would rather have a friend stay alive than to hold onto a few coins or a trinket.

There are more important things in life than coin, and I would not choose to tarnish my reputation over a few coppers.

That being said, my interpretation of these conversations is that people are fair and equitable when they work together in smaller groups, however, when working together as a town, some individuals feel slighted as there is no one standard for distribution.

Please correct me if my assesment is incorrect. If indeed this is an accurate assesment, I will have the Guardians draft up an impartial policy for the standardized distribution of found items to correct and perceived inequities.

Regards,

McGregor
Guardian of Hope's Reach
 
Is hard to believe I am hearing adventurers argue for government policy on splitting loot. Was probably stolen in first place. Next you will be encouraging tax on travelers!
 
Now that's just silly. Everyone knows that travelers bring in new money with 'em. Why tax a good thing?

-Miss Alyce Sharp
 
I agree McGreger that the issue seems to only come into play when it is large groups of people on some quest. Unfortunetly as a community grows so does the distance between any two people - meaning we do not all know each other well, and truthfully probably will never know everyone intimately. And for this reason there starts to be divisions and mistrust among some folk. Which is then fueled by rumors, miscommunication, and feeling cheated.
As much as I personally wish this was not an issue that needed addressing, I am not naive enough to believe that if left alone it will fix itself. For mistrust begets untrustworthy behavior, which only fuels more mistrust and it all ends in a fiery explosion of betrayal and tears.
So to prevent such a happenstance I believe your idea for drafting up official means to deal with loot is sound, as long as we all get a proper chance to voice our opinions on such proposal.
Personally I like the idea of the special box, and I think the best person to carry the box, if he is willing, is Crow, for from what I have observed he is highly respected by our community, trustworthy, and a healer that is in a good position to be the holder.
And when it comes to distributing the loot, we sell basic items such as potions, scrolls and gases, by their market value - unless two people want an item, then it goes to auction. And then we auction off components and magic items, but make sure to start the base price of such items at a fair value so people don't feel cheated when one or two people with money are able to buy items super cheap, because the rest of us fresh adventures are broke. How we determine fair prices for magic items and components I am unsure, but that is my recommendation from the complaints and worries I have heard raised here, and also in private.

Lastly I want to make clear, as I stated before, I personally have little issue with how loot is done currently, but I do have an issue with how it is dividing my new community, and instead of complaining about why can't people get over loot and so on I rather wish to bridge the gaps between us and bring us together threw compromise and understanding.

-Thorador Boulderfist
 
My idea.

I've been avoiding posting this because I'm unsure that I will get the box done before the next market day. The idea is to craft a hard shell box with a slot and a small round hole in the top. The lid would be sealed with a key. It would be impossible to get items out without turning the box upside down and shaking it (which would be a very suspicious thing for the person carrying it to do). In addition to the box, a bunch of wooden colored chips would be made each with a number ranging from 1 to 50. During the adventure, each person can take a colored chip. At the end of the adventure, loot can be split evenly and each pile can be claimed by turning in your chip.

Also, some people have this ridiculous notion that because they do the most damage, they are the most useful. In fact, healers are always the most sought out people followed by shields. If you don't believe me, refuse all healing and never stand behind the shield wall.

-Davion
 
Dr_Chill said:
I will have the Guardians draft up an impartial policy for the standardized distribution of found items to correct ^any^ perceived inequities.
Click to expand...

*Sigh* I was hoping we could avoid having to resort to that expedient and have everyone come to a consensus instead. But I guess the committee monster has already sunk it's teeth into this community... :(

- Tazoulti Strongbeard
Master Blacksmith & Guardian of Hope's Reach

^-Edit -Corrected and to any.
 
David_Aselrik said:
My idea.

I've been avoiding posting this because I'm unsure that I will get the box done before the next market day. The idea is to craft a hard shell box with a slot and a small round hole in the top. The lid would be sealed with a key. It would be impossible to get items out without turning the box upside down and shaking it (which would be a very suspicious thing for the person carrying it to do).

-Davion
Click to expand...

In regards to the hard shell box I had thought of that but the transportation seems uncomfortable. I would like to see sketches of your plans. it seems like an interesting problem to solve.

- Gorka
 
tazoulti said:
Dr_Chill said:
I will have the Guardians draft up an impartial policy for the standardized distribution of found items to correct ^any^ perceived inequities.
Click to expand...

*Sigh* I was hoping we could avoid having to resort to that expedient and have everyone come to a consensus instead. But I guess the committee monster has already sunk it's teeth into this community... :(

- Tazoulti Strongbeard
Master Blacksmith & Guardian of Hope's Reach

^-Edit -Corrected and to any.
Click to expand...

I am against having the political machine involved with this. The problem has not yet escalated to a point where this is necessary. The guards have more important things to attend to, in any case.

-Davion
 
I have avoided speaking up in this matter for a long while now, merely listening and thinking, and I now feel that I should give my opinion.

As a person who has earned many a coin and discovered many a wonderful trinket, I have seen the lure that wealth tempts us all with. Indeed, it was for good reason that I was given a reputation as one of Hope's Reach's greediest people (a reputation I still possess for some reason, despite what I believe to be evidence to the contrary). However, I must say that from what I saw last market days, I truly believe I no longer deserve this title compared to all the people who are bustling hither and thither over what was found, arguing over "a safe carrier" and even developing special boxes and bags.

When I resurrected a few months ago, I was left with almost none of my previous assets and equipment. I even lost two magic items (which seem to have recently become something that must be quarreled over and auctioned whenever they are found, regardless of how the finding came about). Did I, "Gandian the Greedy", care? Hardly. I realized that it was all something I could get again, though my spirit may not be strong enough to undertake a few more resurrections. Is squabbling over who gets 4 silver, 5 ...copper, and a Cure Disease potion really worth it? Be thankful you escaped with your life (if you did) and take a small bit of loot, not as payment for your presence at the time, but as what you think you need to keep yourself fed and armed (either for fighting or for healing) and what you deserve. If someone really did do more than you in the struggle against the Corrupt, let them have a slightly better share. Don't bicker and whine because some got 2 silver and you got 1 silver and 8 ...copper, just accept it.

Another thing: I hardly see what the commotion over components, formal scrolls, and magic items is about. I know two Hope's Reach adventurers who can use the components and scrolls, neither of whom were present during this last market day. As for magic items, they are useful, but there are not something to get enraged about if they are lost (I say this specifically to you, Davion). You can't miss what you never had. What even was this magic item that supposedly went missing? And how do you even know it was magical? I know people who pick up trinkets all the time that turn out not to be magical (namely Gabriel), and I myself have something once believed to be magical and is nothing more than a snazzy looking turtle.

All in all, I say this whole ordeal could be avoided if people just realized there is no such thing as a fair share and that scrolls, components, and potentially magic items are not the most important thing. Destroying the node should have been enough of a reward.

Well, let the retorting begin,
~ Gandian Ravenscroft
 
Actually, I think that was pretty well said. Now, I might not agree with it entirely but I can certainly see where you're coming from.

I think of this current discussion as necessary though. Rather than fight when we see each other and create grudges we 'ave the chance t' decide our town values when it comes to the fair division of our communities profit. An enclosed carrier would protect not only the money an' goods we receive but the reputation and trust of the bearer as well.

The problem with saying "give more to the people who do more work" comes in that there's no deciding factor over wot work is worth. Personally I think we all 'ave our own role to play and no one is any less worthy in a bat'le.

For instance, let's say Stan is new in town. 'E's a little confused about the corrupt and really doesn't know what he got 'imself into. He cringes when blows come 'is way and tries to stay by the 'ealers, 'elping as best 'e is able. Now, you're fightin' ever so gallantly in the front line. You take a nasty blow to the chest and drop. Stan catches it and instead of jumpin' in as a meat shield, grabs your body and drags you back to the safety of the 'ealers.

Even if good ole Stan doesn't swing a single blow the whole fight he 'as still made a contribution- heck, you might even get 'ealed and bring down the big baddy yourself. In a roundabout way it can be said that it never would've 'appened without Stan's 'elp.

They say there are no small parts only small actors. This is even more true of wot we face daily. There are NO small roles when it's life or death at stake! And I think it's only right that we share the rewards as equally as we can.

-Miss Alyce Sharp


Oh, an' I think if you resurrected while defendin' the town you should get all of your stuff back if someone retrieves it. I mean, it's not like you were well and truly gone. I know I'dve been ticked. I certainly wouldn' think it's wrong t'be upset over somethin' like that.
 
Gandian Ravenscroft said:
I know people who pick up trinkets all the time that turn out not to be magical (namely Gabriel), and I myself have something once believed to be magical and is nothing more than a snazzy looking turtle.
~ Gandian Ravenscroft
Click to expand...

i have a bull's head pin that isn't magical that i found, do you still have that turtle? i would like to trade for that if possible

i am fine with not getting a fair shake, but i would like to know that going in. i really didn't make enough to have food each day, and 1 bottled beverage for the weekend, and that's why i brought it up. if we aren't going to divide things up fairly, it would be nice to know, that was or now is my point

-James the inconceivable of Harbors far
 
I applaud Gandians wise words! He has captured my overall feelings in this matter almost exactly. Let's not allow a single individual (or a few for that matter) deter us with such obstacles as a community. We do not need become paranoid about theft - If there is someone stealing in our midst, rest assured, they will be dealt with. So somebody may have exploited our community's trusting nature. Things like that will always happen because there will always someone who will try to exploit any given situation, it's just in their nature. It's how we deal with it each time as a community that will eventually determine whether our work here will make Hope's Reach successful.

We shouldn't be up in arms about "What went wrong with our looting methods", but "Why we did we react to it like this as a community?". We all can do better by simply working together by realizing that nothing is entirely perfect without significant trial and error beforehand. Let's put aside the anger and start putting our proposals into action.

- Tazoulti Strongbeard
Master Blacksmith & Guardian of Hope's Reach
 
Gandian,
Let me see if I heard you correctly. You say that you've always been a person that's gotten more than their fair share and now you come here to reprimand us for attempting some equality? Even your attitude begets someone who's always gotten their way with the matter. You mention 4 silver and a potion like it's hardly nothing at all -- when poor James didn't even earn more than that all last month! You even scoff coppers because they're somehow beneath you. Then you tell us all to accept our second class citizenship because otherwise we're just a group of whiners that can't accept the status quo!

I don't care to hear your words of doubt. Even if this trinket was not magical, someone took the time and effort to steal it, depriving the whole town of it's value. You act as if this item somehow landed in the hands of the most deserving, noblest and most worthy of us all... but such a person would not be a thief. The only beneficiary of a stolen item is a stinking thief.

Scorn the ideas of a box if you must, but if that is the case, do not lawfully demand me to share what I have taken from the corrupt, while keeping what you find for yourself.
-Davion
 
David_Aselrik said:
Gandian,
Let me see if I heard you correctly. You say that you've always been a person that's gotten more than their fair share and now you come here to reprimand us for attempting some equality? Even your attitude begets someone who's always gotten their way with the matter. You mention 4 silver and a potion like it's hardly nothing at all -- when poor James didn't even earn more than that all last month! You even scoff coppers because they're somehow beneath you. Then you tell us all to accept our second class citizenship because otherwise we're just a group of whiners that can't accept the status quo!

I don't care to hear your words of doubt. Even if this trinket was not magical, someone took the time and effort to steal it, depriving the whole town of it's value. You act as if this item somehow landed in the hands of the most deserving, noblest and most worthy of us all... but such a person would not be a thief. The only beneficiary of a stolen item is a stinking thief.

Scorn the ideas of a box if you must, but if that is the case, do not lawfully demand me to share what I have taken from the corrupt, while keeping what you find for yourself.
-Davion
Click to expand...
Davion,

I will not deny that I have, in past, received fair payment for my services to the Fort Miller area (though you saying "more than a fair share" is highly uncalled for). But to attempt to make me look like a greedy miser jingling pockets of gold whilst turning up my nose when people ask for a fair distribution method is absurd. If I have three silver and you have one, am I required to give you one so we are equal? Are the rich not rich because they have made themselves so? Is it the responsibility of the Guardians to ensure that everyone who wants to have coin has it?

...And to use my curse as a means to "prove" your point of me being a miser to whom ...copper is beneath? That is a foul move indeed.

Once again, what was this item that you claim we had and then disappeared? Because if it is what I think you are thinking about, it was not stolen (I know exactly who took what I am thinking of, and they did it for a reason), nor was what I am thinking of magical in the first place. Tell me what you are missing, and I shall confirm whether you are merely hissing over something fully accounted for.

~ Gandian Ravenscroft
 
Are we speaking of the necklace found on the pile of clothing? I was wondering what happened to that?
-Allendra
 
denise_eviana said:
Are we speaking of the necklace found on the pile of clothing? I was wondering what happened to that?
-Allendra
Click to expand...
If this is what Davion is ranting to Aine and myself about, it was I who took it once we returned to the tavern. It was a family heirloom of a man who came to the tavern and implored us to find either his father or it in the Valley of Solace, and are going to return it to him, since his father obviously did not survive there. Like I say, if this is indeed the "missing magic item", I expect to see a full apology to Aine from Davion, and a bit of one to me as well.

~ Gandian Ravenscroft
 
As I have stated before, the reason I support this discussion, and I believe it to be a discussion, is that often miscommunication occurs, someone thinks they see one thing, and another thinks they see something else. Then rumors start, situations get blown out of proportion and people start mistrusting each other even more, which leads to more untrustworthy and selfish behavior, Feeding an endless cycle, if not addressed. This discussion here is to address such an issue.
I have already seen some folk that had had grievances previously change their attitude to a more positive trusting tone because there is an open topic on such an issue. And I believe as long as folk stay civil, this is a positive discussion.

Simply what I am trying to say, is to those who find such discussions tiresome, irksome, frustrating, and long for the days of the smaller community when such a discussion was unnecessary, I say, please bear with it, for trust me, this is necessary, and are simply growing pains, and the fact that such a civil discussion on loot has been posed it gives me great hope for our future =)

-Thorador Boulderfist

PS, if it seems I am repeating myself, it is because I am. I just feel restating a similar idea in different words is sometimes necessary. Shrug
 
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