Paralyze and Death Curse functionality
- Thread starter Tantarus
- Start date
That is correct.
Tantarus
Knight
Or if that is the real hold up, rename it to Stasis.
"I curse you with Stasis."
Now it is easily separated from the alchemy.
Just seems weird to have it have so many exceptions to what it can affect when all other curses have zero restrictions.
I strongly advocate communication with your local plot teams if you are concerned about this change. The monster database is not immutable, and monsters will need to be redesigned across the board for 2.0 to work. Creatures that are immune to certain things now may not be in 2.0, or may have limited resistance instead.
And could be immune to death.
Avaran
Baron
Because of what Death does, I think that immunity to that effect will most likely carry over. And either way, it will be there on NPC's/BBG's that "matter" - same with other take-out effects.
Last edited:
Draven
Count
I agree. I know that many of the designers of this change intend for Death to affect more creatures; I have absolutely no faith in that it will.
Funny story about that. In the current National Monster Database available, there was actually an abundance of things that were immune to death that has been removed in preparation for 2.0. The following classes all lost their immunity to Death (as far as monsters were concerned)
Undead
Elementals (except for Death Elementals)
Constructs
Cursed (I believe)
In total 100+ of ~250 total monsters were updated to remove their immunity to death from the original database
This however does not stop any plot team from writing their own monster cards to suit the needs of their campaign (or LCO rules, or LCO effects)
Avaran
Baron
That is all well and good, but the REASON for those monsters being immune to Death has NOT been removed. And making Death "easier" to use just makes the situation worse, not better. Death is absolutely too effective to leave "plot important" monsters without defenses to it, or outright immunity.
And thematically, Death working on Elementals and Constructs (or any historically Celestial-based creature) is just weird to me. Even worse that it works on Undead. "It's dead, let's kill it again!" And Cursed....well...."All the powers of the universe....little itty bitty living space..."
Tantarus
Knight
Another reason it should be changed to DOOM! I curse you with DOOM!
Draven
Count
Any thoughts on the following?
3. Weakness - half damage rounded down to a minimum of 1 (due to new scaling damage reduction should also be scaled appropriately)
4. Cleanse - works as normal
5. Silence - works as normal
6. Destruction - double damage from numeric damage sources (lowered due to the inclusion of cleanse)
7. Paralysis - works as it does in 1.3, moved to 7 due to being compared to confine wothout working on things without metabolism/addition of cleanse spell
9. Termination/Doom/etc. - works as a spell version of Terminate (drops target to -1 body)
I posit this as I just went on a ~ APL 10-12 mod last weekend where we had 1 life spell left and death was being used as a per life spell on one of ~5 NPCs. We left with only two resurections from a random mod in 1.3.
3. Weakness - half damage rounded down to a minimum of 1 (due to new scaling damage reduction should also be scaled appropriately)
4. Cleanse - works as normal
5. Silence - works as normal
6. Destruction - double damage from numeric damage sources (lowered due to the inclusion of cleanse)
7. Paralysis - works as it does in 1.3, moved to 7 due to being compared to confine wothout working on things without metabolism/addition of cleanse spell
9. Termination/Doom/etc. - works as a spell version of Terminate (drops target to -1 body)
I posit this as I just went on a ~ APL 10-12 mod last weekend where we had 1 life spell left and death was being used as a per life spell on one of ~5 NPCs. We left with only two resurections from a random mod in 1.3.
Tantarus
Knight
I would be fine with death being less deathy and more terminate like. But I still think paralysis should be changed to effect all things and not have a list of exceptions that don't apply to other curses. Call it Stasis to split it from the gas version. This would bring all curses in line with each other and cut out exceptions. You know, simplifying things. Assuming that is still a goal of 2.0.
Sage of Legaia
Rogue
I would say with this change Weakness should maybe be bumped up in level? If the damage reduction is changed to halved across the board, it becomes significantly more powerful the more damage the target is capable of doing, and once the target is swinging 12 or more (which isn't unlikely if NPC damage isn't going to take the same hit PC damage is) it becomes better than 1.3 Weakness. It probably shouldn't go any higher than 4, but halving damage feels slightly too strong for a 3rd level spell to me.
I've always felt that Silence sat a little too high in level, but otherwise I see no issues with this batch of the list. Though I'll echo Tantarus and say that changing Paralysis to Stasis as a way of saying "this one is a Poison, this one is a Curse" could certainly help simplify things and mitigate potential confusion; I'm not sure if I like Stasis as the name, but it fits nicely into the incant and is descriptive enough that I think most people will just 'get it', so to speak.
I like this idea, although I can't say I care very much for either Termination or Doom as a name for it, especially when I say the incant out loud; Death 'feels' better to say, even if the effect of the Curse isn't actual death. My main concern is that it has the exact same issue that Death-as-actual-death does, in that anything Plot wants to survive longer than 10 seconds is going to be immune to it or have a dozen ways of avoiding the effect. I'm still only level 13-14, so I can only speculate on the sentiments of players at levels 25+, but this seems to me to be a non-solution to the problem others have noted with Death in general? Feel free to point me in the right direction if I'm way off the mark. (Or tell me to get bent, whatever works.
)Did weakness get an official change in the new rules to this effect? As it currently functions, the spell seems way stronger for NPCs to have in 2.0 than for PCs.
As a counterpoint, if the number of things/people swinging 10 or more damage regularly decreases as expected, half damage will actually be less effective than a straight minus 5.
Sage of Legaia
Rogue
True, but as the game is primarily PvE and other discussions (primarily those centered around Healing) seem to be revolving around the idea that NPC Body will be going down but NPC damage will be mostly the same, I based my point on that premise; even at 13-14, I find myself on mods with creatures swinging for 5-6 every now and then, so I don't doubt that there are regularly creatures swinging for 12 or higher once the APL for a mod goes up over 20-25. I feel like you may also be inadvertently forgetting that Slays and Assassinates will also be affected by that change, and those are fairly common on NPCs from my experience.