Plot

T

Tank

Newbie
I want to take this opportunity to get the PC's, primarily those who are local to our chapter, the opportunity to give in idea's. I personally know how it feels to be let down by plot, or to not have as much fun as you hoped to have with a certain plot line or something that was ran for a long time and came to a conclusion I was unhappy with; on that note, I am all ears to hear things you would like to see change about the chapter, things you wish to see more or less of, and overall things you think should be incorporated that haven't been around in awhile or hasn't been a part of this chapter ever. You can voice your thoughts on the boards, or if your uncomfortable with that you can send them to me in a private message over e-mail at Jason_Castleman@yahoo.com. I honestly want people to feel comfortable in coming to the plot team with constructive criticism or idea's. You have to remember your the one paying money for the weekend, but also keep in mind those of us who run plot do it for free. If I can incorporate your idea's I certainly will, if I think they are unreasonable I will definitely give you a reasoning as to why or try and find a middle ground. Thanks...

Tank
 
Ask, and ye shall receive. And thank you, sir, for asking.

I dislike how mods/town battles have turned into epic level fights every single time. You can only have about one or two epic, card-tapping mods before you're sitting around role-playing for the rest of the event because you or your healers don't have any spells left. If I walk into a group of normal orcs, I'm okay with my 20's fighter cutting through them like butter. He's supposed to. While that might not be tons of fun for the NPC's to play, it IS enjoyable for us PC's. And for those NPC's who don't have fun NPC'ing small cards against big PC's, you are doing it for the wrong reasons. I had a total BLAST NPC'ing for a mod last event as undead peasants. We were running and screaming, throwing around red tabbards like entrails, and generally being wacky and intense. I believe the PC's had a great time. We popped fast and often, and we kept them entertained without having to drain their skills. More of those types of fights. I really don't need to fight an illithid/beholder/dragon/lich/banshee/suckbeast to have fun. Quite the contrary.

Bring the fear back. This is possible through many avenues, denoted by a +.

+ Turn the friggin lights off around the camp. Flood lights kill the ability to sneak and hide; I have no fear traveling around the tavern/cabins because there is no where an NPC can hide to jump me. And don't for a second claim this is about "safety". We go out into the field riddled with fire pits at night every event and think nothing of it. We travel down sloped paths with branches and grabbed wacking us in the face, and enjoy every minute of it. I'm sure we can turn the lights off around the road/tavern and be just fine.

+ Nerf Casan. With all of his ridiculous magic items/transform/non-standard Tom-foolery (pun!), I have little to no fear of, well, anything. Circle rez? Nope, he's got that covered. No healer? Nope, he's got a magic 11 column. No magic weapon? Nope, he's got 8 to dole out. Resurrecting? Nope, he's got a Regen and enough gobs to buy every single death he'll never take. He already raises from the dead after awhile, all he needs left is to cure the blind, walk on water, and start his own religion. If that's his goal, then rock on, good luck, and consider my a convert, disciple, and ready to bear his immaculate child.

+ Create situations where PC's can lose without it being because the other side has a bigger stick. Ask Chad about "saving the Baron" with army of ice elementals. He lost that day, and it was actually because HE had the bigger stick. It was plot that created the situation, and plot that gave him the what-for. I miss those days. Outsmart me, create a web I get caught in, a trap door I should have seen but didn't. Being beaten about the face and neck with a plot member's hammer-like pen has lost it's luster.

+ Create genuinely creepy situations. Need examples? Doug, last event, playing some all-seeing Seer that literally giggled the entire time we were there. Ask the others on the mod if you doubt, it was off-putting and creepy. Hate to use Doug as another example, but he recently ran a table-top night for us where this little girl got possessed and turned all of the children against us. There was scratching on the walls outside and all sorts of ****. Probably the most creeped out I've ever been at a table-top sessions (unless when you count the time I saw Doug's package, but that was a whole different level of creeped out).

Create, facilitate, and incubate PC hate. I want to feel emotion again at Nero. Good role-playing creates good events. Emotional situations creates good role-play. Some of the most fun I've had at Nero was screaming in my friends faces, crying over PC's deaths, and other emotional situations such as those. Those should be created/facilitated/incubated by plot. I used hate because it's the easiest to create between PC/NPC relationships (and it rhymed, obviously). But instilling a sense of dedication, loyalty, and/or honor is an amazing plot device, as well.

I know I'm like alone in this regard (or every other person who agrees is simply a non-public/vocal sissy), but I want more PC/PC conflict. This is created/facilitated/incubated by plot, as well. NPC's pitting PC's against each other; LOVE IT. Creates an amazing, tension-filled event. Makes people better role-players. Actually makes multiples characters worth it. "Easy going character this weekend, or ****-talking in your face character"? When everyone works together 24/7 and everyone gets along, PC's tend to blend together in a bland broth of boring. It doesn't help when half the chapter is part of the same group, and I shudder to think how that is fun for them, but that isn't something plot can really control.

I remember a time when Nero players from MI were known for their badassery. That day has long since passed, and it saddens me. We made due without magic items and transforms. We fought big cards with skill, not with bigger cards. Somewhere along the line, the "Nero bootcamp" I remember turned into Nero Daycare. We had a sink or swim type of world, and it created hard-nosed, intuitive, regulators that were known literally across the country. They were created by being forced to rely upon their wits, tactics, and skill, and those who didn't make the cut learned damn quick if they wanted to measure up. I don't see PC's being tested like that any longer.

Straight-forward, I realize. Perhaps I have offended some. Not my intention. Unapologetic if I have, though. I have never made my opinions secret. For many, this isn't news. And for those who disagree, I'm eager to hear your take on things. For those who feel the same (on any of my points), I'm even more eager to hear your take on things. It is rare that a question is laid so bare, so public, and so open for the answering. I would hope that many others take the opportunity to speak freely.

Steve
 
Im going to post here about all things that I think will benefit the Chapter as a whole. I know this is going away from the subject here of "Plot" but I feel it is necessary:

Respect. This is a HUGE one for me. The NPCs should always have respect for the PCs and the PC should always have respect for the NPCs. I have seen WAY TOO MANY TIMES where PCs will call out a new-er NPC or PC for a rule call that they might not understand and be VERY rude about it. Just because you know the game well doesnt mean that you have the right to berate someone about that rule. We are here to have fun both PC and NPC alike. Even though you are paying your $50 bucks to BE entertained, those NPCs are VOLUNTEERING to entertain YOU. Show some respect to them and thank them on EVERY mod that you go on. This also goes for NPCs. They need to realize that they are here to entertain and NOT to rez all the PCs forever, unless otherwise SPECIFICALLY told by a Plot Team member. This also goes for PCs to PCs and NPCs to NPCs. I personally feel that this rule should be enforced by the Chapter Owner and could result in getting kicked off of the campgrounds if disobeyed.

The Fear. I agree with your opinions on bringing the Fear back into this chapter, Steve. I just want to make it known. I am not just talking about shutting off the lights because people might think I want to roll PCs. It is about the Fear being a HUGE part of the atmosphere of the game.

Nerf Casan. Very early on in this Chapter there might have been a need for Super-Casan. There is no need anymore, IMO. Also, there should be an NPC who has all of the Merchant / Magic Item / Formal Scroll connections that Casan does. I dont care WHO plays that but it should not be a PC. It should be an NPC. If Casan is going to be a PC, he should be a straight up PC. If Casan is going to be an NPC, I would be fine with all his Merchanting connections. Its nice to buy stuff when you need it but an NPC can do that just as well as Casan can.

Move Logistics / Keep In-Game in game and OOG out of game. Logistics being inside of the Tavern Building results in late PC's showing up and destroying the In Game atmosphere inside of the Tavern. This is not a fault of the PCs but can be avoided if Logistics was in NPC Camp. We were able to run NPC Camp last event with enough room to sleep everyone, have all the NPC camp & weapons, have a full mod room AND we would have had room for Logistics. This also includes PCs staying In-Game and keeping all OOG conversations to a minimum.

Support your Plot Team. If you see your Plot Team in need of NPCs, go Volunteer. Email your Plot Team to see if they need any Weapons made or Mod Cards written for them. If you think your Plot Team is getting burnt out, inform your Chapter Owner. Your Chapter Owner should be responsible for making sure your Plot Team is having fun running Plot AND your Chapter Owner should find fresh replacements for a burnt out Plot Team.

More Plot Team Members. I know that some people can run a game with just one Plot member but multiple people running different levels / mods can make a game run much smoother.

Im going to stop here because I have probably offended people. The first item on my list, and a few others, is the reason why I will not be attending next event. I feel I need to take a break from NERO for now.

See you all in November.

GJ
 
To ALL of my FRIENDS who larp with us,

I want to make sure that everyone is on the same page here. Jason/Tank posted to get information form our players so we can make changes to the game so everyone can enjoy the game. Josh and Matt have a couple more events until they are done running the main Plot line. They have served our chapter very well over the last I don't know how long maybe 4 years? I have been larping with Tom, Matt, and Josh for 14 years and they are to be commended for everything they have done for the game and continue to do for the game! "YOU GUYS ROCK AND THANK YOU FOR KEEPING OUR LARP ALIVE" I know that even though they wont be heading up the plot team that they will still be helping any way possible in the 2011 season. So please make sure that all of your comments are constructive and not bashing what they have done. It's very easy to hurt peoples feelings because we all care so much about the game.

Thank you Steve and John I have open communications with John and Steve. I know the issues that they have with the game and I understand them on many levels. We would like to hear from everyone and remember keep it constructive!!! You can email anyone on the plot team directly or post on the boards just remember you might get what you wish!!!

The 2011 Plot team will be Headed by Jason/Tank and assisted my myslef "Asa" and Joe Convery. We are still looking for more plot members who would like to help us full time. So if you would like to make a huge impact on the game please feel free to let us know that you have interest in joining the team. We are looking forward to a huge season with lots of new ideas, plot twists, and new things to entertain all of you.

Thank you very much for all of your time,

Asa Hensley
 
I hope my comments dont appear that I am having issues with this Plot Team. This Plot, that I have been extremely proud to be a part of, has been the best Plot that I have EVER been a part of in my Alliance / NERO career.

My comments spawned from issues I had with the event we ran. Hopefully, these comments came off as constructive and not destructive. If they appeared to be destructive in nature, I apologize. That was not my intention.

GJ
 
I also did not think I was being vieled in who I was calling out. I called out Tom directly for Casan's role in his chapter. He and I have talked about it before, and we have recently talked about it again. It's no secret between us. We're friends, afterall.

The rest of my comments target "Plot" and all avenues that word spans. In general, at Nero, since Seth left, I have had the above problems. Some are more specifically recent (ie lights), but rest really apply to every plot team since. Brooks/Brian, Nick/Mitch, Josh/Amy/Mitch/Nancy, Josh/Amy/Mitch/Matt, Matt/Josh, and Tank/Asa. Some teams took care of a few of the above, while other teams covered a different slew of the above. In general, however, those are my issues. Nero will always have issues. It will never be perfect. Seth had his obvious, definite short-comings that upset me/us as well. He just ran a good enough game for us to deal with his ****. Eventually, however, that faded and his **** outweighed his game, and he soon got out of the game soon after. If people are burnt out, get out. If yuo're not, take what advice you like and leave the rest behind you.

Steve
 
Thanks for all the good suggestions so far. I would love to hear from some more players, whether publically or E-mail Tank. We are going to try to tailor the game to those requests, as much as possible. So if you completely agree with the previous posts, chime in and let us know. If not, let us know as well.

Personally, I would like to hear the experiences of some of the newer players. We'd like you to hang around and keep playing, so help us make that happen. I would post my plot preferences, but it seems oddly self-serving since I will be on the other side of things next season.

Thanks,

-Joe
 
I have several problems with the way Alliance works at our chapter, most of which cannot be fixed by plot. What can be fixed has already been said by both GJ and Steve, and I agree with every point they brought up. As of right now though, I don't really have anything new to bring to the table other than one thing. I think it would help to encourage small group mods. I know that I love small group mods, and although other people might not feel the same, I think constant whole town mods are a problem. Granted, in a way, this was already brought up by Steve and GJ in mentioning that not every fight needs to be epic, but these two things aren't necessarily the same. At any rate, I loved the contracts at the last event as well as mod cards in the forest, I think these are great ways to work toward small group adventuring being more common place.

Also, thanks to everyone who helped make the last event so ******* cool, I appreciate it more than I can say here, and I look forward to attending events that will be just as enjoyable, if not more so, in years to come.

--Wes
 
Thanks for soliciting player feedback and input on plot. I think this is a huge part of running a good game. Here are some thoughts on what I like to see at LARP events. All in all, though, I have really enjoyed this last season of SoMI, and look forward to next. I offer these insights not as veiled criticisms of any kind, but rather to put in my two cents about what an ideal gaming experience might look like for me.

1. Not every fight is epic. I agree with the previous posts about this. I LOVE the long term wear down battles. I also don't think random crunchies around town should be ludicrous, unless there is a reason for it. Cards with thousands and thousands of body should not be the normal "Saturday night fight." I like the idea of using tactics, terrain, or other circumstances to make a more modest card a longer and more interesting fight. Circle beat downs with some uber card are not fun for me.

2. The goal is not just killing some dude(s). The first mod that comes to mind on this is the one where we had to find and activate the 10 or 11 keys on the field of fire pit doom in order to mess with the dark elves. There was a clear mission that had nothing to do, directly, with killing guys. Sure, we had to kill guys to accomplish the goal, but I loved that the goal was something else. Josh and Matt's mod where they had Waller go one way and the town go the other, where we just had to survive an onslaught until Waller finished his part, was cool too. It reminded me of a "take and hold" scenario in an RTS game. At any rate, these variances on the "kick in the door and crush everything you see" are refreshing and fun.

3. Not every plotline is interconnected. There are many reasons, as a plot person, to make everything interconnected. But sometimes things should be separate. One guy's personal plot should not necessarily have a hook into the chapter plot. This can be harder to run, I recognize, but this is just a preference of mine. (To be clear, I like to have personal involvement in chapter plot, but others do not.)

4. Not every plotline spans multiple events/seasons. This is a tough one to balance, because you want people to be involved and have a reason to come back. But in my opinion, everything our characters seek should not require 15 steps and 8 events to accomplish. If logically the goal does require such effort, excellent. There should be plotlines and tasks, though, that can be solved in one or two events. This allows a sense of accomplishment and recharges the players' batteries to press on with the arduous and long-term challenges.

5. Not every plotline ends up effing you in the a. There should be some plots where helping someone in need at some moment in time does not spawn 15 instances of being screwed over. Sometimes having a choice between two bad options, either one of which is going to get you screwed just in different ways, is cool. But not everything should be like that, in my opinion.

6. Players cooperate. I may be in the minority in this, but I don't like PC v. PC fighting. Sure, there are reasons PCs get mad about things, but I don't think that is a goal to be sought or encouraged by the game. I find it much more fun when people work together--even when they don't want to work together, perhaps--to accomplish goals that each group/person could not independently accomplish.

7. Information is available. One of the many things that makes LARPing different from tabletop is that when the DM puts out information, it doesn't necessarily make it to the people who care or will act on it. That makes super complicated plotlines hard to advance sometimes, and puts a premium on player lines of communication. This is part of player cooperation, I suppose, but I mention it separately because it is a big part of my enjoyment of the game. I came to the last event late and when I got in game, I was thrilled when I could walk up to a few people, ask what was going on, actually get an answer, and allow that answer to get me up to speed enough to plug into what was happening. The plotline, and ultimately player fun, suffers when the story is not accessible enough or when some critical fact happens to fall into the hands of a player/PC that get off on withholding it so that everyone else fails at their task. That is certainly their prerogative, but it is something that plot teams must anticipate and plan for, because ultimately the enjoyment of everyone else may hinge on whether that fact becomes known.

8. There are non-tangible rewards. I like it when rewards for PCs are both tangible and non-tangible. Sometimes you get gold and magic items, and other times you get a connection to some NPC that can help you later. And not just help you figure something out, necessarily, but offer something to help solve the greater issue. Working with the dwarves a couple events ago to get some tick tocks to help with the brood comes to mind. I liked that a lot.

9. Treasure is splittable. Treasure splitting is like the trump card for ruining game atmosphere and player fun. Giving out one epic item and then some gold is sometimes appropriate, but should not be the norm. I much prefer the idea of five smaller items going out than one big one. That allows the magic item treasure to be spread around. As for gold, I don't mind party treasure coming out at the end of a mod because it usually means the treasure split is more equal because Sneaky McRogues-a-bunch didn't pocket half of the coin from behind the lines when everyone else was fighting. For many if not most LARPers/tabletoppers, acquiring treasure is a part of the experience and fun, so making sure the treasure can be and is actually split is pretty important, in my opinion.

In closing, thanks to Tom, Matt, and Josh for running a great game this last season. I am looking forward to next season, and already like what I am seeing from the new plot team.

Best,

Joe / Stremthi
 
Responding to Joe. He had a lot of great points I totally didn't think about. I do kinda want to spark a conversation/debate about some of the topics he talked about, though. Because the above are the big topics in my mind, I glossed over the smaller ones, and I'd like to see where people fall on these topics.

And before I continue, as most of these points deal with working/problem solving with other PC's, I want to make something clear. Contrary to popular belief, I'm not all about killing PC's (and I'd venture to say I could find at least five players, Mr. West included, that have killed/rolled more players than me). This belief, however, is specifically why I'm playing a good guy now.

StremthiWayfound said:
6. Players cooperate. I may be in the minority in this, but I don't like PC v. PC fighting. Sure, there are reasons PCs get mad about things, but I don't think that is a goal to be sought or encouraged by the game. I find it much more fun when people work together--even when they don't want to work together, perhaps--to accomplish goals that each group/person could not independently accomplish.
Click to expand...

Totally understand where you're coming from. I remember being pissed at the Alebellies multiple times because the town ended up getting it prison-style because they'd left the town and decided not to fight. I was infuriated. I will say, however, that it was an IG issue that we learned to deal with via IG ways. Isn't that on the PC's to find ways to work together? You can have PC/PC conflict and still find ways to come together, can't you? I guess I'm not saying that plot should try to force PC's into attacking one another, but plot should never be curbed or dodged because it might pit PC's against each other. PC/PC disagreements/conflict creates more real-life IG issues to deal with on a day to day basis. It makes the game feel more real, I guess. Thoughts?

StremthiWayfound said:
7. Information is available. One of the many things that makes LARPing different from tabletop is that when the DM puts out information, it doesn't necessarily make it to the people who care or will act on it. That makes super complicated plotlines hard to advance sometimes, and puts a premium on player lines of communication. This is part of player cooperation, I suppose, but I mention it separately because it is a big part of my enjoyment of the game. I came to the last event late and when I got in game, I was thrilled when I could walk up to a few people, ask what was going on, actually get an answer, and allow that answer to get me up to speed enough to plug into what was happening. The plotline, and ultimately player fun, suffers when the story is not accessible enough or when some critical fact happens to fall into the hands of a player/PC that get off on withholding it so that everyone else fails at their task. That is certainly their prerogative, but it is something that plot teams must anticipate and plan for, because ultimately the enjoyment of everyone else may hinge on whether that fact becomes known.
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Again, I feel like this is a PC issue. If you have PC's who like to horde information, but they're good at being the only ones who get it, that's another factor within the game. This is another thing that can/does break in-game reality. If it doesn't make sense for the NPC/plot to repeat that info, they shouldn't simply because some PC's aren't sharing information. That goes against the reality of the world. This game is supposed to have challenges, and working with PC's and possible against them if they're hiding info is part of that, no?

StremthiWayfound said:
9. Treasure is splittable. Treasure splitting is like the trump card for ruining game atmosphere and player fun. Giving out one epic item and then some gold is sometimes appropriate, but should not be the norm. I much prefer the idea of five smaller items going out than one big one. That allows the magic item treasure to be spread around. As for gold, I don't mind party treasure coming out at the end of a mod because it usually means the treasure split is more equal because Sneaky McRogues-a-bunch didn't pocket half of the coin from behind the lines when everyone else was fighting. For many if not most LARPers/tabletoppers, acquiring treasure is a part of the experience and fun, so making sure the treasure can be and is actually split is pretty important, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

And again, I feel like this is a anti-realism problem. When the treasure is handed to us at the end, it feels so much like a vending machine, not a reward. The ability to search creatures isn't always there due to different circumstances. Why should we get treasure for that? Thieves are a realistic part of the game as well, and treasure at the end really makes that impossible unless you are the person who gets the treasure package, and then you're skirting a very fine line of rule-breaking. To me, this feels like another way for plot to spoon-feed Nero to it's players. What happened to the trials and trip-ups of adventuring? I feel like there is something wrong when IG Nero world becomes just as easy as our RL world. I don't need an HR person handing me my monies after a long day of killing orcs; I'll collect it from their cold, dead bodies, thank you. =) Thoughts?

I shall state again that these are simply my opinions, and I'm looking to see what others (including you, Joe) feel about said opinions.

Steve
 
Ok two times today...this peice of **** board has logged me out without telling me. So for four hours of my day today I have posted long relys to this and this damn board has erased it both times. So I am going to write again in just a minute but I have to run errands first. Will post when I get back ;(.
 
Ok third time is the charm right? Anyway this list is complied from my own thoughts and ideas, and a bunch of other people that I have asked in TC and the like. Most don't have internet access etc so I said I would post for them.

I would like to say that this is all suggestion and not complaining, I have yet to meet a plot team that I haven't just had a blast with, ever. I got super into Matt and Josh's dark elf stuff. It even made me race change a couple times etc. That is how into their plots I have been. So in no way is this what plot has been doing bad. Just thoughts for the new regime.

1. A lot of people don't like the fact that we don't have a real home to speak of. We have an outpost, and that outpost seems to move all the dang time. When we are talking about this in game we are not even sure what to call the land. So it always reverts into calling it just Kzoo. Even in game, which shouldnt happen. So I think we need to have a town that we can start caring about again. A lot of people were super invested into Caladore back in the day, and I think we need that dedication again.

2. We need more "good guys". Some people don't want to work for, or with, vampires, were creatures or dragons just to name some things. You all know I don't mind working for or with whoever so this is not a complaint from me. But I know some of the newer players etc want to fight along side the paladin type NPCS and do things for those same NPC's. They want to be heros and want to have somebody to look up to in that role. I think we need a good mix of "bad guys" and "good guys" so that people have more of a choice.

3. I think we all need to stop complaining so much, including myself, and start working towards a better game. Complaining at the game seems to increase all the time lately. And all it takes is one person complaining out of game in the middle of game to get people's morale down. It is like a disease, one person complains and then others jump on the ship. This is very counter productive. So while at the game we all need to stop complaining about plot, other PC's unless its in game, or anything like that. Like our mom's always told us, if you cant say anything nice dont say anything at all :).

4. I dont think that the magic items, level of pcs, or even Casan ruins the game. All of these things can be worked around if we just start thinking outside of the box. I have many thoughts and ideas on how to challenge the pc's and even take down most of them very easy with just standard skills. Nobody in this game is invincible. Not even close. They might seem that way if you just send waves of npcs that just want to die at some of them. But I am sure with the right planning and timing anybody in the entire game can be taken out. We just have to stop being lazy thinkers. Something I saw at Nationals that I thought was awesome was the life spell trap. NPCs hung out in the woods and yelled "we need a life spell". And sat and watched people run out to their doom into that trap. It is things like that, that can take out pcs but we just dont bother anymore. The traps that Asa I think set on the cabin almost did in people. Had it not be for somebody spotting them and actually having ledgerdmain. So we just need to stop complaining about magic items, levels and other PCs and just get back to being bad asses on both sides of the game.

5. I know everybody in game wants personal plot. But maybe we can all compromise and do group plots instead of personal? This might help the newer players want to join a group. And this would give groups even more importance. This way you could have the main plots of the weekend and seperate group plots. I am not sure if it would work but it sounds interesting to me.

6. Town battles. I really enjoy the epic wave of monsters onto the tavern but I know I am in the minority. One thing that I did like back in the days that Broooks ran though was the splitting up of town, town battles. He would make us do two things on opposite ends of the camp at the same time. And if one failed...they both failed. This way you could have the "high levels" fighting burly stuff at one end of town doing their thing. And at the opposite end you can have the "lower levels" or even the people that don't like the other group doing stuff. This way you can throw out the really super powered stuff like master vampires to give a challenge to one group, and then you can have lower end stuff for the other group to handle at the other end. This way the new players dont get run over by the big bad train.

I think it was said earlier in this thread that SOMI used to be the baddest people in town. Let's all get back to that. Let's all start working as a team together again. We need to be the bad *** bears that we used to be back in the day. So lets all stop complaining, help each other, and lets get back to the hardcore *** kickers we once were!

5.
 
I just wanted to "second" the point about having a real home.

And I also like town battles and often town mods. I guess the key is to just have a balance of these things and small group tasks/mods.

Best,

Joe / Stremthi
 
"And again, I feel like this is a anti-realism problem. When the treasure is handed to us at the end, it feels so much like a vending machine, not a reward. The ability to search creatures isn't always there due to different circumstances. Why should we get treasure for that? Thieves are a realistic part of the game as well, and treasure at the end really makes that impossible unless you are the person who gets the treasure package, and then you're skirting a very fine line of rule-breaking. To me, this feels like another way for plot to spoon-feed Nero to it's players. What happened to the trials and trip-ups of adventuring? I feel like there is something wrong when IG Nero world becomes just as easy as our RL world. I don't need an HR person handing me my monies after a long day of killing orcs; I'll collect it from their cold, dead bodies, thank you. =) Thoughts?"

Thank you, Steve! I have been saying this for a long time. I knew I was not the only one who felt this way. Spot on!

Also, giving players the option to buy back deaths is lame. I have been saying hat since the first time I heard of it. I understand it is a great customer service tool, but I can't think of anything positive that it adds to the game. And honestly, if there were some awesome quest that you could undertake to retrieve pieces of someones spirit...AWESOME, but lets keep it in game, and as realistic as possible.

As far as plot goes...

It is near impossible to please EVERYONE at an event. Someone is always going to have a gripe, be it legitimate or not about what you did/ran/wrote. It is unavoidable. I think it is very cool of the plot team to open it up for discussion on a public forum.

I think plot should write the story's outline, establish the people and places in that story, and then turn it over to the Players via roleplay and other interaction to do with as they will. All the while guiding the players in this direction or that as needed. Involve, and immerse the players as much as possible in the world/story you have created for them, get them to buy in to the story so they care about it. Otherwise, people are just kind of milling about on the outskirts of what could have been a really cool experience for them, and you.

At least, that is what I crave from this game, and teh pl07z0r5.

See you f*c*ers next weekend! Wooo-Hooo!
Mitch
 
TadRon said:
...this peice of s*** board has logged me out without telling me...
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I now know how you feel. It's really frustrating when I take the time to choose my words carefully as I type, just to have them deleted.

Back to where this should have started.
Mitchel said:
Also, giving players the option to buy back deaths is lame.
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I don't think I could agree more with you right now. At the point of being able to come back as many times as I want, I feel the strong desire to disregard feelings of caution or fear I may have about my character resurrecting. I don't mind paying with gobs, but I think there should still be some sort of in game piece to it. For instance, maybe there should be some sort of extraplanar police force that monitors these things, and murders people who seem to be stealing pieces of their spirit back for their own selfish reasons, thereby undermining the mortality intended for them, or perhaps buying back a death should come with certain effects, like a backlash to a ritual, or some sort of drastic change to the character (either physical or emotional/mental) that you'd have to roleplay out. My personal favorite would be a series of quests (that definitely needs to be plural) that you'd have to go on to obtain a piece of your spirit from the beyond. Regardless of how it's done, I think that buying back deaths should coincide with some sort of dauntingly difficult in game task that explains why you can now resurrect another time. Still, I think it's a great idea [to make buying back deaths more difficult than just giving up some gobs (sorry I felt that this statement lacked some much needed clarity)].

With respect to what Joe and Steve were discussing, I think that the things Joe suggested and Steve disagreed with would ultimately turn this game into something I would want no part of. Truly, I mean no offense in what I'm about to say, and I apologize for the crudeness of this example, but if I wanted to play a game where I partied up with people, split treasure evenly with them, and every one played fairly, I think I'd rather play WoW. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that this game should be about nothing but lying, stealing, and slitting the throats of the poor bastards that were dumb enough to share a room with you, but all these things, when utilized appropriately, through legitimate means, play a massive role in the game and the roleplaying that takes place therein, adding depth to a degree that I cannot experience or even see anywhere else.

At this point I was planning on talking about individual points that Chris and Joe brought up that I liked and agree with, but they all seem to come down to about the same thing: variety. No one wants to go on mods where the only thing we accomplish is bash face and watch what happens. In this respect I think we can all agree that variety is key to having a good time, because at the same time, after you get your *** handed to you by a puzzle that was far easier than you ever made it seem (like "eoere _ _") sometimes you just want to go bash face. I know that I don't like large town mods much, but I know that they still have their place, and Chris raised some good points (point 6, here, or you can scroll up...) on how to make these sorts of mods more enjoyable for every one. I think all the other points can mostly be covered by this topic as well and I really appreciate your guys' input, because you thought of some stuff I never would, but I think the way to make it all more acceptable really lies with variety.

--Wes
 
Amulnar Mannik said:
With respect to what Joe and Steve were discussing, I think that the things Joe suggested and Steve disagreed with would ultimately turn this game into something I would want no part of. Truly, I mean no offense in what I'm about to say, and I apologize for the crudeness of this example, but if I wanted to play a game where I partied up with people, split treasure evenly with them, and every one played fairly, I think I'd rather play WoW. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that this game should be about nothing but lying, stealing, and slitting the throats of the poor bastards that were dumb enough to share a room with you, but all these things, when utilized appropriately, through legitimate means, play a massive role in the game and the roleplaying that takes place therein, adding depth to a degree that I cannot experience or even see anywhere else.
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QFT. Bravo and well said.
 
I don't disagree on buying back deaths. One thing I am not sure about, though, is whether SoMI has the ability to change that policy or whether it is a game-wide issue.

As for the points that Steve/Wes and I disagree with, I do want to clarify one thing. I am in favor of player choice on all of them. I think it should be an option that players secretely and sometimes openly fight against each other and pilfer each other's stuff. I think it should be an option that players hoard information or undercut each other's plots. The list goes on.

The reason I posted those things is in reaction to the point that the game should "[c]reate, facilitate, and incubate PC hate." I don't think the game should create, facilitate, and incubate PC hate. That might be fun and thrilling for some people, but it isn't for everyone. There needs to be a balance of the interests of creating a fun and thrilling game, on the one hand, and a game that is accessible and appealing to new and more meek players and is a successful business, on the other.

But like I said, players have autonomy in the game, and that is one of the great things about it. Certainly I have done my fair share of anti-player acts in my LARPing career, but it is something that I no longer enjoy or partake in. That is why, when I posted about "what an ideal gaming experience might look like for me," I included the points about cooperation, information availability, and treasure. Those are things that I enjoy and others may not, and a healthy disagreement on those points is a fair result.

That said, when it comes down to what kind of environment plot is going to create, facilitate, and incubate, I don't think it should revolve around PC hate or PC v. PC tendencies. It just isn't necessary for plot to create, facilitate, and incubate that, and too much of that undercuts the game for everyone else, in my opinion.

That's my take.

Joe / Stremthi
 
Most of what need to be said has been. I would just like to throw out my thoughts.

Plot: It does not need to be said that Matt and Josh have done a great job, we all know they have. None of what I say is any reflection on what they are/have run.
I would like to see a lot less focus on personal/background plot. The purpose of a character background is to tell the story of why you became an adventure, not the adventure itself. It is the HISTORY of events that lead you to the insane life of an adventurer. When I ask about events I often hear the phrase “I had a good time, BUT none of my personal plot was run so I am a little disappointed.” Really? You are one person in a group of 20-30 people. If anything you should thank the heavens that the plot marshals took the time out of their event to run something targeted for just one person. I have never been a huge fan of background plot coming into play. I would rather see groups get targeted for plot. LARPs are not a solo game, they promote interaction. I like having to find ways to become part of adventure as I am a one man team. There are too few hours and too many people for anyone of us to expect personal attention.
I like one weekend plots. Ones that can be taken start to end in one event. I feel that this would have a better appeal to people that cannot make every event. They would know that they could come to the game and accomplish something and see the end result. I like the continuing plot line, but if that is all the weekend is about many people get lost in the shuffle as they may have missed an event or 2 and most likely will be kept out of the loop.
I hope more people will step up and run weekends for Tom and his staff. It is really cool to have rotating plot teams and see what new ideas come from people. I would love to see 2 plot teams switching off events so that you are always encountering something new at every event.

Tavern/Casen: It is a simple issue... Ask if the engine put in is needed, wanted or necessary by/for the players any longer. If you can say no to any one of them, then it needs to change or be removed. It seems to me it is starting to get some push back.

PCS NEED TO STOP BEING LAZY: We (I am just as bad as any) all have become lazy. From our out of game talk to drinking out of water bottles to the cabins and their lack of decoration. We have all let the game slip into more of a live action paint ball with foam sticks then a LARP. A lot of people have put a ton of time into costume and make-up, but all that gets lost when you are standing in front of a microwave with a mountain-dew bottle in your hand talking about gas mileage in you Honda. It takes very little effort to make the place look better. Clay cups are cheap, cloth to cover out of period signs/equipment is easy to come by and the cool banner is something you can make in your spare time.
Find ways to occupy yourself when the plot members are busy or the wave attacks are not so frequent. It is not hard. You could take up a craft play a game, or even *gasp* talk to other players. If you play a period instrument, bring it and play it. Can you sing? Do a play? Sit down and hash out the charter for your household/guild? I think I have made my point. Part of the LARP experience is not just the interaction and the solving of plot. The largest part should be your role-play/interaction with the people (pcs mostly)/world around you. We are are a spoiled lot, in the fact that for the most part plot has something to do almost all the time. However that does not mean we cannot help them out by finding creative ways of doing things ourselves.
Also please stop expecting plot to run at the front door, die and drop the treasure and answer for the event. Sometimes (should be all the time) you have to work for it. Many times I see people sitting around and the dumbest thing shots out of their mouth
“I am bored”
This statement is made 99% of the time out of game by a player(s) that is just to fing lazy to get off their *** and find something to do. They are the ones that expect plot to walk over and lead them by the nose to adventure. Guess what. The plot is there.
I agree 100% with GJ’s statement of respect. I understand that people pay to play this game and with that a few people get this odd sense of entitlement with it. The people that staff members that run the game do so voluntarily a.k.a. for little reward and a **** load of headache.

That’s about if for now.

Doug Fleming
 
StremthiWayfound said:
I don't disagree on buying back deaths. One thing I am not sure about, though, is whether SoMI has the ability to change that policy or whether it is a game-wide issue.
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The rulebook lays the guidelines for it, you can only buy back deaths in your "home" chapter, and there's technically no limit to how many you can buy back (other than gob restrictions). That being said, I see no reason why we can't simply deny players the service, or at the very least make the experience more enjoyable by incorporating some sort of plot based, in game mechanic so that it's not a "poof" and you can die again scenario. While we're on the subject of gobs, I think it's also a good idea to consider doing a similar system for buying magic items which will firstly decrease escalation and secondly make for a much better story than "Oh by the way, between market days I just so happened to find this ridiculously powerful item lying around." And if such a thing does happen, whoever used to own that item is probably looking for it, and should probably come to town to try and get it back. Not to mention the rulebook says nothing about being able to use gobs for magic items.

Also Joe (sorry it seems like I'm just bashing every point you make but it's really just something I'd like to discuss and hopefully we can all reach a point of compromise) I don't think that plot should control PC-PC conflicts all the time. They should not create, facilitate, or incubate such things all the time. However, PC-PC conflict is a great way to bring emotion and a stronger sense of purpose in the roleplaying at hand (although it is not the only way to do this), and in a game that is the way ours is right now, the plot team can absolutely help to get the ball rolling, because everyone gets along. So really what I'm trying to say is that plot should definitely incorporate pitting PCs against one another occasionally, but by no means do I think it should be there main goal, because as you said that would completely undercut the game.

That being said, it is important to note that this is a way to easily drive new players away from the game, but it shouldn't become a problem. If our veteran PCs start harassing newer players, I would expect that some one would step up and say "hey knock that **** off, they're new," because I know I certainly would, not to mention it doesn't make sense from an in game perspective to do that anyway. For instance, let's say there are two groups at war in the town, they're going to try to recruit this new person and they're going to have a tough time doing that if they roll him in the woods for being new. The other example is individual PC-PC conflict which also shouldn't be a problem because you should have no reason to kill the new guy, unless you're just an ******* who kills everybody and the new guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time, in which case, they'll hopefully be taken in and given shelter by some group of people in the town, and that new person will probably learn a lot of rules firsthand that they might not have known otherwise.

Again I'm sorry, I don't mean to make it seem as though I'm singling you out or trying to bash you're points, because they are undeniably good points and each idea does deserve a thorough thought, but I disagree with (some of) them.

I think Doug raised some good points as well, one of which is spectacular and I'm kicking myself for not agreeing with GJ earlier. Respecting NPCs I think is an absolute must, and I know I'm not perfect in this regard, but I'm going to try to get better at it because the massive amounts of fun I have are a direct result of the time and effort put in by the plot team and all the NPCs. Thank you all.

Furthermore, going off of what Doug said, I think that if you're upset about not getting your personal plot run, then you should go make the town plot personal. Get involved in the story, have an effect on how the town handles situations, care about what's happening and do your best to have a good time. Just because your personal plot wasn't run doesn't mean you can't have a good time and it doesn't mean you should be bored.

Speaking of being bored, it simply shouldn't happen. I know that I have uttered this atrocious phrase my fair share of times. I also know that when I really can't escape it, I go NPC, because I'd rather help to entertain other people who are probably feeling just as bored as I was, than sit, complain, and add to the problem. Not to mention, there is plenty for you to do in general, particularly in the past couple events with mod cards and contracts. Granted, you still need to wait for NPCs to be available for you to do those things, but at least you know that you're going to be doing something, not to mention, if you are waiting an excessively long time for NPCs to run something for you, maybe it's a hint that they need more NPCs and you can help them. I understand you're paying for the weekend, but you don't have to NPC for the whole event or even the full night. I've NPC'd before for a couple hours because half the town was off doing something and the rest of the town was doing nothing and Tank was completely cool with letting me do it.

--Wes
 
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