Pre-Pays Closing Soon!

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obcidian_bandit

Pioneer
As it is now within three weeks of the event, the pre-pay deadline is nearly at hand.
The following pre-pays have been received for November:

PC:
Jeff Rainville
Seth Bird
Bryan Gregory
Mark Walker
Fletcher Collins
Alex Shamis
Jason Warlock
Matt Oostman
Carmen Swift
Marc DeArmond
Raissa DeArmond
Emily Sweet
Sara Jane Jones
JP
Leigh-Ann Magill

NPC:
Jesse

If you've been left off the list, send me a PM and I'll look into it.
Event fees will go up to $55 for those who wait but still pre-reg by the deadline or $65 for those who don't, payable at the door.
 
I gave my pre-pay to Amber at the game day, I have a reciept should it be necessary.
 
What is the pre-reg deadline? I am sure it is written around here somewhere, but I could not find it.

Thanks
 
Remember that everyone who has pre-payed must still pre-reg as normal!

If you gave money to someone who wasn't me or wasn't the paypal address, and you're not on the list, the person who you gave money to needs to send me an email before I'll put you on the list. If you gave money to me or the paypal address, and you're not on the list, you should contact me, because I've forgotten about you. It hasn't happened yet, but it's possible.
 
obcidian said:
If you gave money to someone who wasn't me or wasn't the paypal address, and you're not on the list, the person who you gave money to needs to send me an email before I'll put you on the list.
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This should be clarified on this [ http://www.alliance-seattle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3588 ] thread, for those of us who feel setting up a pay pal account for this alone is a bit more than a nuisance. Additionally, this should be conveyed to anyone accepting money. Also, the receipt book should be more than qualifying for proof, as should receipts coming from it.
 
That thread says rather explicitly that to qualify for the pre-pay price that you must pre-pay via Paypal. I have been accepting cash and checks in person and via the mail as a courtesy to a small handful of players who preferred to pay that way. If someone else has allowed you to circumvent the methods that are laid out in the thread you referenced, I have not been informed. If you in fact made a payment to any other staff person, you were extended the same courtesy that was extended to others, and I will add you to the official list once I've received confirmation. I feel that adding someone to the pre-pay list without that step would set a bad precedence and open a door to possible abuse of the pre-pay system.

I am uncertain why you feel setting up a paypal account is a nuisance, they are relatively quick and easy to create. The one accepting the pre-pays was set up and running in less then five minutes, assuredly less time then it took to travel to whichever gameday you attended. I am aware that a number of people are unable to set up paypal accounts, which was why the option to pay in cash or via check was made available on request. Finally, while a receipt from the book would be adequate confirmation of payment at logistics of the event, I am at best 100 miles from it and will not see it until I am on site myself. I keep the list of pre-pays in this thread as a service to those who have done so properly to confirm that everyone's payment has been honored and not lost in the shuffle. While it may not do so as publicly, your receipt will already provide that service to you.
 
It's a bit ridiculous to state that you are providing an alternate method of payment as a courtesy when you know for a fact that there are those who can only utilize the pre-pay system via those methods of payment.

If the chapter is going to allow pre-pay with an extra discount to people, it needs to be available to everyone, regardless of how that payment is received.

That means not saying that it's a "premium pay-pal service with alternate methods available as a courtesy." It should be "these are the methods accepted, but pay-pal is prefered."
 
I have no problems with people pre-payiong however they wish. Please do realize that Matt is doing the chapter a service by handling the pre-pay accounting. Making a payment without him being able to confirm that payment is a good way to throw off that accounting. His request for having the information emailed to him from the receiving individual is not unreasonable. The reciept from the receipt book is more than enough proof of pre-payment.

As to thepaypal thing, that will soon no longer be necessary as we will be switching to a business paypal which allows for secure checkout cart style purchasing which does not require the buyer to have a paypal account.

The pre-pay option is new and may have a few kinks in it here and there, but it has been a great success. It has allowed us to pay for the deposits on the next three events and have the November site almost 50% paid (basedon a 30 person attendance estimate) with enough people also coming to the event, not pre-paying, to easily cover the rest. I would like to thank everyone who did pre-pay as well as Matt for volunteering to administer this program.

Please remember to bring your paypal or other receipts to the event so we can close out our accounting.

Dave Overman
 
Why do I see paypal as an annoyance? Because I don't want to have to pay for my events over the internet. I want to be able to show up at a game day / fighter practice / other event / etc and give money, should I chose to, to an individual on staff capable of saying "Okay, thanks". I find paypal to be an impersonal and lifeless entity that is out there just so people can throw money at things rather than go and physically interact with people.

As for my personal reasons on not setting up a paypal account, this is the only thing that I would be using it for, and with as many other avenues there are to pay (also, without a charge) it would simply be yet another password to get lost. And lost interenet passwords that are tied to your bank accounts is definetly bad-news-bears.

As it seems that the intention for the Alliance chapter is to move towards trying to run this game as a business, I'd like to remind you that cash is the most legal form of tender and cannot be refused as such. And something's only a courtesy if everyone already has the ability to use it, should they choose to. Pre-paying for events is the courtesy, not allowing the only "preferred" method being funneling your money through a telephone/cable/air line.

What I was stating to update the post was that I don't believe anyone else (Even the General Manager or Owner) have a pre-determined way of saying "Hey, this person gave me money", thus creating a need for that system to be in place. Once again, a simple "But what about" has been viewed as an attack. Cool down before you try to defend something, seriously.

Oh, and I can use underlines and even bolds too.
 
Brad Lewis said:
As it seems that the intention for the Alliance chapter is to move towards trying to run this game as a business, I'd like to remind you that cash is the most legal form of tender and cannot be refused as such.
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Untrue. The U.S. Government and creditors cannot refuse to accept U.S. currency, however, individual sale or service businesses can choose to do so if they so desire. ("Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise." -source). They could accept payment only in the form of belly-button lint, if they really wanted.

Oh, and I can use underlines and even bolds too.
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Yes, but you do so poorly. :) Why would you underline the space that follows the words you underline?

All that said and done, it might be most clear to simply state that an event fee is X. If you prepay via Paypal by a certain date, you will receive a discount of Y. If you do not pre-pay, but do pre-reg, you will receive a discount of Z.

For instance:
Standard Event Fee - $65
Long Event Fee - $90

Pre-pay at least two weeks before the event via Paypal and receive a 25% discount!
Pre-reg at least one week before the event and receive a 15% discount!
(Discounts may not be combined)
 
jpariury said:
Brad Lewis said:
As it seems that the intention for the Alliance chapter is to move towards trying to run this game as a business, I'd like to remind you that cash is the most legal form of tender and cannot be refused as such.
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Untrue. The U.S. Government and creditors cannot refuse to accept U.S. currency, however, individual sale or service businesses can choose to do so if they so desire. ("Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise." -source). They could accept payment only in the form of belly-button lint, if they really wanted.
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It would, however, be increadibly inadvisable to say that cash isn't accepted. Especially considering how many people pay in just cash. The fact that you went and dug up federal laws concerning the acceptance of different forms of payment is also pretty ridiculous, and I really don't care enough to check to see if there's a specific Washington state law that requires the acceptance of something that says "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private" right on the front of it.

Accepting only paypal pre-payments in order to recieve any form of a discount where regularly other players are simply trying to scrap together enough to get enough money by the friday of an event is playing a fairly prejudice game against people. Regardless of that fact, its also not "just that" price, since its also got the service charge tacked on as well. While not that much, for those who are trying to get enough together in time for the event, it puts that discount that further out of reach.

Think of it as saying, to a further outlandish extent, that the chapter would only accept cashiers checks from one certain bank that has a handful of locations that doesn't pickup phones. And that it also has to be mailed by X date and arrive on Y date, regardless of where it came from.

I don't have an issue with the stated prices, really, its simply stating that "Oh, well, you have to send it in through Paypal to get any sort of a discount. Otherwise, prices for you are going up". Its simply poor business practice, or something like it, to say that something's a courtesy for something that's actually a premium service.
 
Ummm did you miss the fact that I said that I am happy with people pre-paying in whatever form they wish, as long as the person handling the prepayments also gets that information? The people taking the payments would be responsible for making sure that information is communicated.

The paypal is there as a convenience to those people who want to use it. Obviously, some people like it (enough so that we had about half our expected number of attendees use the service). Some people are not going to like it, so we accept other forms of pre-payment as well. There is no preference for either one from my point of view.
 
Honestly the ability to use pay-pal is awesome in my opinion. I rather dislike having to stop by an ATM before events to get cash, when I can just hop online from almost anywhere (home, starbucks, the library, the airport... tons and tons of places) and quickly jump into paypal, use my credit card to send the cash and not worry about carrying cash to the event.

On top of that, the chapter has been gracious enough to offer a discount if we pre-pay by a certain time. How awesome is that? Not only do i get the convenience of using my credit card, but i get a discount if I do it early and the incredibly tiny paypal service fee is easily absorbed by the discount.

I understand that some people have a hard time scraping together the money to go to an event and sometimes don't even get the money until hours before the event. Honestly, I feel bad that people have to go through all that in order to attend an event, but that doesn't mean that others shouldn't be allowed to use the easier method if they have the money ahead of time.

There is really nothing to complain about here. People who can't afford to pre-pay still pay the same prices they did before. They aren't being punished in any way, and they aren't being reprimanded by staff for not using the paypal service. Their situation is unchanged.
 
Dave said:
Ummm did you miss the fact that I said that I am happy with people pre-paying in whatever form they wish, as long as the person handling the prepayments also gets that information? The people taking the payments would be responsible for making sure that information is communicated.
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I did read that, however not everyone in this thread seems to share those sentiments. As I stated before, from what I've seen there's no indication (Other than finding Matt at the location hours away he's at, of his own admission) and throwing money / check at him or mailing it (Hardly reliable).

Derek Ironhammer said:
There is really nothing to complain about here. People who can't afford to pre-pay still pay the same prices they did before. They aren't being punished in any way, and they aren't being reprimanded by staff for not using the paypal service. Their situation is unchanged.

No one has room to complain about this.
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If someone does not pre-pay, prices have gone up roughly 5 dollars. Not that much, sure, but as already indicated on this thread difficulty is already there for some people. And the only complaint I have on this is the insisting that Paypal must be used, yet denying it at the same time. Additionally, no actual idication of how to use a method other than Paypal.
 
If someone does not pre-pay, prices have gone up roughly 5 dollars. Not that much, sure, but as already indicated on this thread difficulty is already there for some people. And the only complaint I have on this is the insisting that Paypal must be used, yet denying it at the same time. Additionally, no actual idication of how to use a method other than Paypal.
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1. The increase in price is actually tied to an increase in site costs. Miller raised their prices. If we want to use Miller (which people do), then we have a choice of charging more or reducing quality. Add to that, we have not had a price increase in a number of years while the costs of running events has risen. It has nothing to do with pre-pay.

2. No one is saying paypal has to be used to pre-pay. Your solution of handing it to Amber at a gameday obviously worked. I do not see anyone in this thread saying paypal is the ONLY means by which pre-pay is accepted.
 
Dave said:
2. No one is saying paypal has to be used to pre-pay. Your solution of handing it to Amber at a gameday obviously worked. I do not see anyone in this thread saying paypal is the ONLY means by which pre-pay is accepted.
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I disagree, as I said early-on, it states in the original announcement that Paypal is the only method available for this. After speaking with yourself and others about other options, I gave Amber money at the game day. Then, I log on today to see that "This is the only list, and the only people who have paid".

Taken from : viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3588
Dave said:
The second change is to the event fees. There will be a new category of payments added, for people who register very early via the Paypal method. To qualify for the new lowest price, payment must be received earlier than 2 weeks before the event, the earlier the better. The middle price is for those who meet the pre-reg deadline. The last price is for those who do not notify logistics that they will attend by the pre-reg deadline.
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The "official" post made in the announcements thread indicates that payment must be received 2 weeks prior. It also states that it's available "for people who register very early via the Paypal method".

As has been stated in other venues, good communication is a beautiful thing.

Edit: And, to sum up and go back to the original post I made on this, I'm simply stating that the appropriate information needs to be presented on the Official post on how to prepay as well as conveyed to those who would/might take money for this.
 
At this point it seems like a dead horse is being beaten over and over again. And it is just turning into a big 'ol game of point the finger.

We, or at least I understand what you are saying Brad, and I understand what Dave, Matt and others are saying too. So, perhaps, what needs to be done is that, the original thread in the Announcements section just needs to be amended with what has been stated in this thread by Dave.

And then perhaps we can leave this alone and not devolve into 3 pages of arguments over this.

(I am not trying to say it is just one person, cause it takes 2 and many times it is more then that.) :)
 
Brad Lewis said:
The fact that you went and dug up federal laws concerning the acceptance of different forms of payment is also pretty ridiculous
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Only to those who would rather espouse legalities not in existence. I do a great deal of debating in forums where having sources to back up your claims is necessary (plus, it cuts down on all the "you're wrong!" "nunh-unh, you are" malarky), so looking up source material is fairly second-nature to me. Likewise, I'm fairly skeptical by nature, and when I make a statement that seems to go against "common sense", I either make sure I'm not just talking out of my darker posterior bits, or specify that I'm operating under potentially faulty premises.

I really don't care enough to check to see if there's a specific Washington state law that requires the acceptance of something that says "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private" right on the front of it.
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Neat. "I don't care if I don't understand the law, it should mean what I think it means". You do not have a debt. You are purchasing a service, the legal difference being all the difference. Your own indifference to your ignorance notwithstanding, it is all the difference.

I don't have an issue with the stated prices, really, its simply stating that "Oh, well, you have to send it in through Paypal to get any sort of a discount. Otherwise, prices for you are going up".
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Strawman argument. Your interpretation reflects neither the practice nor the statements made (nothing indicates Paypal to the exclusion of other options). In fact, I'm fairly certain Matt was crystal clear that you could pay otherwise, there's just an extra step necessary to ensure everything is accurate (making sure he gets an email from whomever collected the funds). It's the responsible position for him to take.
 
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