Quality of Life changes?

[Gilwing]

I understand the logic, but I disagree entirely with it being a metagaming issue. Especially no more than it would be a metagaming issue to create LCO magic items for a character that does not travel, or choose not to take waylay as a rogue because you intend to wield latex reps that are not valid for it.

There is a bright line between using OOG knowledge of plot for character advancement and playing to the rules system.

I knew some people that got wind of the change to Purify. They used their gobbies when they spotted a purify item on the npc magic item list and bought as many as they could. Total Metagaming. They knew that it was going to go up in level and power and took advantage of that knowing that others did not know.

 

[Gilwing]

I keep hearing that Spirit Forge for 2.0 isn't a guarantee. Obviously that would be silly, but given certain people's penchant for hating on Spirit Forge (especially free ones), it's equally silly to just assume there will be one.

And I think Race Change is far, far less likely to be available than Spirit Forge since I've never heard that mentioned as even a remote possibility. I think it would be foolish to expect a free Race Change, but that's just me.

I really really think people need to manage their expectations though, and plan for not having any of these things. If we get them: GREAT! If not, then nobody is disappointed/upset because they didn't plan on it/expect it.

Or are you officially announcing as an Alliance Logistics member that this has been decided and that we should all expect free Race Changes and Spirit Forges?

Also, I am okay with people taking their ball and going home if they want to be that upset about something so utterly trivial.

So what happens to the people that can't afford their current character cards if they don't get a forge? If your answer is, they stay negative until they reach positive build...well that can take for ever for someone I personally know. Heck, including me too.

 

[Draven]

I realize that nobody can officially say that there will be a Spirit Forge if/when 2.0 is released, but I'm pretty sure that there's really no reason for it to be a serious discussion.

Either there's a Spirit Forge or a massive outcry. We all know this, and we all know the owners know this. I'm pretty confident that they can't promise it because technically nothing can be promised until there's a vote on it, and I doubt they're going to vote on it until 2.0 is actually finished.

 

[Saephis]

While this isn't necessarily in line with the topic, it still needs saying to some degree:

While its practically impossible to confirm or track, I feel different individuals have been behaving with out-of-game knowledge for some time. Buying different scrolls that they knew would go away and have to be changed to something else or simply be unavailable, "fleecing" characters of their Restricted scrolls by selling them soon-to-be-controlled LCO items, hoarding countless scrolls/items because they don't like them existing or being available on an OOC basis... the list goes on.

It ultimately comes down to player responsibility, and something that is sorely lacking in numerous individuals' case. While things like "I want my character to do this, because I enjoy it" are one thing, it becomes another thing entirely when you know, somewhere down the line, someone else's game is inhibited by your actions and behavior. "I'm spending build on X" is practically meaningless in that case. Using "insider" information to better yourselves over others, be it as a player (tester or some other avenue of "in the know"), marshal, or even owner -- that's downright reprehensible and doesn't belong at game, in my opinion.

 

[Muir]

While this isn't necessarily in line with the topic, it still needs saying to some degree:

While its practically impossible to confirm or track, I feel different individuals have been behaving with out-of-game knowledge for some time. Buying different scrolls that they knew would go away and have to be changed to something else or simply be unavailable, "fleecing" characters of their Restricted scrolls by selling them soon-to-be-controlled LCO items, hoarding countless scrolls/items because they don't like them existing or being available on an OOC basis... the list goes on.

It ultimately comes down to player responsibility, and something that is sorely lacking in numerous individuals' case. While things like "I want my character to do this, because I enjoy it" are one thing, it becomes another thing entirely when you know, somewhere down the line, someone else's game is inhibited by your actions and behavior. "I'm spending build on X" is practically meaningless in that case. Using "insider" information to better yourselves over others, be it as a player (tester or some other avenue of "in the know"), marshal, or even owner -- that's downright reprehensible and doesn't belong at game, in my opinion.

Honestly, that's a discussion we really all need to have as a game, because rules changes aside, there is a brutal market in screwing over less experienced players who don't understand how the MI system works in too many places.

 

[Draven]

hoarding countless scrolls/items because they don't like them existing or being available on an OOC basis... the list goes on.

This is different than hoarding Obliterates because you don't want them available on an IG basis.

:|

 

[Avaran]

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[Draven]

I think, to a large degree, that this should be left up to the individual chapter's Plot Team.

When I was running plot in OR, I didn't let any scrolls or catalysts go out that I didn't want in the game that I was running, and the more sought-after sets (Perm, Regen, etc.) I made a concerted effort only "drop" when and where I wanted them to and to make sure that everyone knew they were there/available (usually through auction). I also didn't give out Oblit sets, but I did give out a number of one-shot Spellstrike Shatter Spirits to PC's knowing full well they could be used against the BBG or another player, but I didn't do it without a great deal of thought and they were in the hands of player(s) I trusted to make the right OOG decision regarding usage - but I did expect them to be used at some points (and they were, to great effect!).

I think the only responsibility the player has is to 1) ask the current plot team if they indeed want or don't mind having <y> ritual in their game (if they are the team who "dropped" it 2) if a new plot team, ask the new plot team if they are okay with said ritual being in their game. If they are okay with it, they will say so (you could even chat with them about the pros/cons), or they will take it back if they aren't (and MAYBE offer something in trade, but that certainly isn't required). But at the end of the day, you gotta trust that Plot knows what is going on and that they purposefully "dropped" a "bad" ritual. If that's a concern for a player in a chapter, and they can't trust their plot team, then maybe that is a different discussion to have with the chapter owner.

My bad, Adam. My comment wasn't at all serious, and it was referencing a joke between Brad and I about how "SOME PEOPLE" don't want Zeth to have Obliterates because there's this weird fear that he's addicted to delivering them.

And it's a completely and totally unfounded thing.

 

[Avaran]

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[Saephis]

Just to avoid confusion on my above opinion:

A plot team doing it is vastly different than the examples I listed being enacted on the "as a player" basis. Plot teams have a story to tell, and putting in scroll X rather than scroll M is pretty standard and acceptable, in my mind. Its practically required, with so many ritual scrolls existing as possibilities, no one can do anything if an equal number of every scroll was attempted to be put out over the year.

Deciding, OOC, to control or throttle the IC atmosphere through your PC of magic items, or to profit from upcoming changes, or to take advantage of players who don't know the real difference between LCO, Restricted, and Mist-Touched scrolls -- That's what I feel is a problem that needs addressing to some capacity.

And if Zeth wants to cast Obliterates, he should do the hard work of disabling the target and acquiring the scroll/catalyst himself. Lazily having people deliver disabled bodies and scroll/catalyst combos isn't exactly hard work.