Racial roleplay requirements vs. roleplay "expectations"

[Mobius]

i'm suggesting that diversity in individual personalities should not be mandated by rules the same way Spell Incants are mandated by rules. i do think that each race should have generalized concepts which most likely define their personality and activities, what i don't understand is why those definitions should be held to such a rigor that individual deviation is akin to cheating

is why i asked the original question regarding the thought behind the decision to organize customs is "rules" the same way make-up is organized as "rule". ¿what was the rational? if i understand that, i would be in a better position to understand: A) how to explain/enforce the rulings to new or confused players; and B) how to interpret situations which don't fall into the simple framework (eg. ¿is a Human who uses a "southern" accent cheating by too closely resembling Gypsies? is an Elf who demands "dominance" fights cheating by too closely resembling High Ogres? or, ¿are they both merely eccentric? etc.)

 

[markusdark]

You seem to be arguing that the races are all merely humans, with human-like emotions and ways of looking at things, except they're green or have feathers, and that is certainly not what the races are in our game.

Try to imagine a Klingon open to the idea of surrendering. Accepting this will help to accept why the races in Alliance do what they do.

 

[Mobius]

You seem to be arguing that the races are all merely humans, with human-like emotions and ways of looking at things, except they're green or have feathers, and that is certainly not what the races are in our game.

Try to imagine a Klingon open to the idea of surrendering. Accepting this will help to accept why the races in Alliance do what they do.

"The Undiscovered Country" is about almost exactly that. every important plot-arc in the movie revolves around individuals overcoming their racial stereotypes and how enlightenment is so healthier than bigotry. look at Worf, he's the poster child for playing against stereotype

 

[markusdark]

You seem to be arguing that the races are all merely humans, with human-like emotions and ways of looking at things, except they're green or have feathers, and that is certainly not what the races are in our game.

Try to imagine a Klingon open to the idea of surrendering. Accepting this will help to accept why the races in Alliance do what they do.

"The Undiscovered Country" is about almost exactly that. every important plot-arc in the movie revolves around individuals overcoming their racial stereotypes and how enlightenment is so healthier than bigotry. look at Worf, he's the poster child for playing against stereotype

And yet...

When the Klingons and Romulans went to war, he turned he resigned his commission to go fight the war
When his mate was killed, he fought and killed Duras, even with Riker shouting for him to stop

Those are a couple of examples. Yes, you can try to fight against your stereotype, but it will always bring you back down when the rubber hits the road. I suppose if your plot wants to run an arc where Stone Elves become the new gypsies, it could work but until then, keep it the dour hour.

 

[evi1r0n]

Humans should be pink.

For the record I am brownish-white, not pink...

 

[Mobius]

HAHA - touche

 

[jpariury]

This sentence should probably be removed or changed:

"Unlike other races that are distinguished by physical features, gypsies are defined by costume, behavior, an accent, and culture."

While it does not seem to be the intent of the rule, the rulebook can leave a new reader with the impression that unless you are a gypsy, your culture is not a defining characteristic of your race. Certainly barbarians should be identified by costume, behavior and culture, and from this discussion, all races should be identifiable by their behavior and culture.

 

[Vazhi]

This sentence should probably be removed or changed:

"Unlike other races that are distinguished by physical features, gypsies are defined by costume, behavior, an accent, and culture."

While it does not seem to be the intent of the rule, the rulebook can leave a new reader with the impression that unless you are a gypsy, your culture is not a defining characteristic of your race. Certainly barbarians should be identified by costume, behavior and culture, and from this discussion, all races should be identifiable by their behavior and culture.

It doesn't read to me as though it implies other races don't have culture that would identify them as part of that race. I guess you could add the word "some" before "races" and "their" after "...gypsies are defined by" but seems rather nitpicky. Being a "new reader" I had no confusion as to the intent of this statement. I think the very fact that humans, barbarians, and gypsies are differentiated in the ruleset is a very broad and obvious cue that culture is a huge factor in the difference between races.

 

[Ondreij]

In the world of Fortannis, people of disparate races can breed and reproduce, but the offspring do not mongrelize: a Gypsy who mates with a Mystic Wood Elf will either bear a Gypsy child or a Mystic Wood Elf child, but not bear a Gypsy with horns and/or pointed ears, nor a Mystic Wood Elf who speaks with an accent and is compelled to wear clothing with offensive color combinations :lol:

And yet, in the Real World of Earth, a dog cannot mate with a cat and produce offspring of any kind.

I know, I know -- a Mule is a Burro and Horse offspring (and is always an infertile male) - but that is a mongrelization. And a Siamese cat can breed with a common tabby and will produce three quarters of the litter which will be all black with Siamese feature and these offspring if they are bred with pure Siamese will produce pure Siamese offspring because Siamese "breed true" -- but that is in this "reality" and not in the reality of Fortannis, which has different rules -- a world with true magic and alchemy and kinds of metaphysics.

Anyone who is insisting that the logic of our world should apply to the world of Fortannis, in which we play our game, isn't trying to understand the rules and laws of Fortannis.

Everything else outside of the rules in which conflicts and confusions exist is the fertile ground of role play.

 

[Jim]

I think the very fact that humans, barbarians, and gypsies are differentiated in the ruleset is a very broad and obvious cue that culture is a huge factor in the difference between races.

this is part of the issue; humans, barbarians, and gypsies in Fortannis are not different cultures, but different races.

 

[Vazhi]

I think the very fact that humans, barbarians, and gypsies are differentiated in the ruleset is a very broad and obvious cue that culture is a huge factor in the difference between races.

this is part of the issue; humans, barbarians, and gypsies in Fortannis are not different cultures, but different races.

That's my point. They're races that are different due to culture and dress and certain rules that you can't see just by looking at them. I was only really saying that it seems evident, to me at least, that culture is an important trait of a race to counter someone else seeming to say it wasn't made clear. I do recognize there are potential grey areas though.

 

[obcidian_bandit]

Here's the thing:
You should be playing the 'stereotype' of your race. 90% of the time that people are going to have interactions with someone of a particular race IG they'll be a PC. By playing 'stereotypical elf' you're enforcing what it means to 'be an elf' in the game world. PC interactions are key here to building a consistent universe. If you're not playing the stereotype, you're harming the game world because you're giving players (who might be new, or who might never have met another elf while IG but should know something about them from having lived in Fortannis, etc) an incorrect picture of what it means to 'be an elf.' If we could have hundreds of NPCs out playing members of every race all of the time, then playing an 'outsider' wouldn't cause this problem, but as it stands, you might see only a handful of NPCs of a particular race all weekend, and probably then only for a few minutes, while you're hanging out with the Bob the Barbar PC all weekend learning that barbarians love shuffleboard, talking like a gypsy, dressing in a suit and calculating how many casters they'll need to put up a new celestial circle around their new guild house.

PCs are the world. They have to take that responsibility when they decide to play the race.

These role-playing rules are put in place to allow players to make assumptions about the races. When you see someone wearing pointed ears, you know that they may have certain abilities such as Resist Command and that may change your strategy with dealing with them. You can conclude that every biata you see will dislike celestial magic and every dwarf will appreciate and study well-made weapons. Every race must act like and be identifiable as that race by all other players. By adhering to racial characteristics, this fantasy world of ours becomes much more real.
This adds up to more fun for you as well. By playing your race properly, other members of that race (and the NPCs of that race) will be more willing to role-play with you, get you involved in their plots, and otherwise include you in the goings-on of that race.

 

[jpariury]

To put it another way, if no one plays the stereotype, then being "different" has no value.

That said, which aspects of the stereotype are unique to any given race and to what extreme does it fall under the auspices of "playing your race correctly" vs not?

I mean, let's take a dark elf. The rulebook says they have to keep their word, which seems all well and good. However, does this mean a statement like "I'm going to go to the store" counts as "giving their word", or does it require blood contracts and the like? There is certainly an argument to be made that both ends of the spectrum are within the range of acceptability and that dark elves can argue it out amongst themselves, but if the entire range is permissible within the context of whether or not the player is abiding within the rules for playing their race, then the whole "requirement" becomes rather worthless. By the same token, if the roleplay of being a dark elf is largely focused around their honor, does that mean you cannot play a similarly-focused character of another race?

 

[Mobius]

i can't quite articulate why, but the idea that all PCs are intended to play racial stereotypes sticks in my craw something fierce. i hear what you're saying about PCs building the world and it's important that races be easily identified by action, but the idea we're all supposed to be happy little drones just irks me. maybe i'm misreading your intent, but i really don't like the idea that "If you're not playing the stereotype, you're harming the game world" (obcidian_bandit). ¿am i alone in this?

 

[jpariury]

You seem to think that playing the stereotype has a narrow bandwidth.

 

[Ondreij]

You seem to think that playing the stereotype has a narrow bandwidth.

Maybe it does -- or maybe it should?

 

[markusdark]

I don't believe that playing your racial stereotype is a narrow path. Barring some extreme examples, you can come up with a character concept and easily apply the racial requirements to it. There's nothing stopping someone from playing a heavy drinking individual who was thrown out of his town and now doesn't like dwarves because one once beat him in a contest. And you can apply any race to that - even a dwarf!

A race is like a potato - you can dice it, turn it into soup, make it a meal or just a chip - but no matter what you do, it's still a potato.

 

[Mike Ventrella]

You can play a good dwarf or an evil dwarf. You can play a stingy dwarf or a generous dwarf. You can play a militaristic dwarf or a scholarly dwarf. You can play a lusty dwarf or a quiet dwarf. You can play a headstrong dwarf or a cautious dwarf. You can play a thieving dwarf or an honest dwarf.

Races don't limit roleplaying because of their "stereotypes" -- they just place the roleplaying within certain limits. No two dwarves act exactly alike.

 

[Shandar]

happy little drones

I can't help but think that you're overpersonalizing this a bit. No one is suggesting anyone play a "happy little drone", but if the rulebook says that all ducks quack, then when I see a go to a game and see a duck it had better not bark, or I'm going to assume someone's breaking the rules at worst, or being a cheeseball at best.

Nearly every Dark Elf I've met played the race to the detail as described in the book. Do I think they're all the same for it? Do I have difficulty telling them apart or remembering anything interesting about them? No.

Do I assume all MWEs have the same goals and ambitions because they all hate the entrapping of free will? Hardly.

You want to play something *different*, and that's cool, but you're already doing that from the start; unless you play in a world populated exclusively by heroes and legends then your character is going to be special and different simply by virtue of being a PC in a world of NPCs. Instead of trying to come up with ideas for being a unique and interesting dwarf why not put your effort towards playing a unique and different adventurer/hero/villain?

 

[kittenpunk2]

Culture, race, and values: they all play a part in character R.P, right?

I play a MWE who was raised by humans and had liltle to no real interaction or knowledge about the history, culture, and teachings of her own race...

She often hangs out with Gypsies and even shops at some of the same places for clothing, she wears bright colors, lots of layers, though in a different fashion then Gypsies do. She does not take to their ideals or views on the world or speech patterns.

She does not use the values of her human foster parents either, but none the less the human upbringing and Gypsies friends do affect how she interacts with others because they are the two cultures she has been around the most, it therefor affects the way she processes information to a limited degree and reacts to things of interest, but without changing her core instincts, race traits, and values.

She presents herself as a MWE not hiding a lack of knowledge about her own race, yet also stating strong believes in her own races core values, such as an utter disdain for will controlling magic, the belief in finding a skill and becoming great at it...
the parts that make her the most like the MWE are the things, values and mindsets that come instilled in her DNA and not defined by where she was raised or by whom.

If every one maid the same cut out of each race the game world wold become raciest, boring, and dry...