Re: event fees

I would like to state that the policy was announced on the national boards, not on our local boards for the specific purpose of not wanting the policy to be used by local players. I had players on the East coast and Midwest asking if they could pay/no play so I opened it to them.

I do feel that local players should play the game to get credit. I also do note that a person making a $30 donation gains enough gobbies to back-blanket that same event, making it more lucrative to the players to make a donation instead of doing the pay-no-play.

This policy will continue to be in effect for anyone outside the chapter, as well as those who pre-pay and find they cannot attend the event. They will be able to either roll it forward, gift it to another player, or roll it over to the next event they attend.

The specific reasoning behind this is that pre-paying the event really is of benefit to the chapter. It allows us to gain a better idea of how many people will be attending than pre-reg does, and it gives us the ability to do things like have the money available for the pre-shopping of food (meaning we can have fuzzy-mug style service at Sheppard as well as Miller). I feel that offering a pay-no-play to the people who pre-pay *only* as well as those not in this chapter does not hurt our chapter, and actually serves to build on it.
 
I'd like to make a couple of points.

First is that the money goes into the chapter. In all honesty, I'd rather be a couple levels behind people and see some cool new stuff in monster camp. If some people have the money to donate, and they're willing to give it to NERO rather than a new video game or a night of laser tag, I support that. I might not be able to, but that's okay.

The second point is that for me, who is also a poor college student, I'm taking about a million credits. With a course load of 19 credits and a part time job, I don't have much time on my hands. In order to get gobbies, I could either spend 5 hours making 300 packets, or work a couple extra hours, babysit for a couple hours, walk a random dog and donate the money. The second option saves time. And one doesn't get neck pains.

I understand both ways- some people can level faster while others can hardly pay for events. But they're leveling faster as a reward to helping the game.
 
I feel a little bit more comfortable with this policy given Dave's stated opinions on it, though I can't say I like it still.

Someone who takes the time to make and donate a pair of claws has donated a ready-use item. Someone who donates money, however, just donates money. The supplies still have to be bought and someone has to take the time to make those claws. Basically, money's useful, but not immediately useful, especially on site when you could really use that set of claws.

Someone who takes the time to craft something for a donation learns more about how to properly craft that item and how to recognize when that item might not be safe for use (in the case of combat oriented items and sharp metally bits).

I honestly have the money borrowed to be able to pre-pay events, and I'm going to college without a job. So the concern is not for myself. As I said, my concern is mostly based on the consideration of Seattle's historical playerbase: poor students.
 
Dave said:
I would like to state that the policy was announced on the national boards...
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I don't mean to be calling anyone out or anything, but a search of the alliance forums provides no post of a pay-no-play policy. Was it made undera different account than doverman?
 
sarah said:
I don't mean to be calling anyone out or anything, but a search of the alliance forums provides no post of a pay-no-play policy.
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I found a reference to it in this thread:
http://www.alliancelarp.com/bb/forum/fo ... =6643&PN=1
(sixth post down) which implies that the announcement was made over a year ago (and I'm not sure how to get it to search more then a year back, and I just got off of work and am in no mood to mess with it).
sarah said:
Basically, money's useful, but not immediately useful
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Oh, quite the contrary, and you'll believe me in the next day or so when the February event goes on the calender for sure. We still haven't gotten enough early registrations for the November event to cover the cost of the site for Feb, but someone donated a good deal of money to make sure it would happen, and only because of cash donations are we over the mark.

I know that historically we've been a chapter of poor students, but that's much less the case now then it was. There are quite a few poor high school students who went on to become poor college students, but there are also plenty of poor college students who went on to become gainfully employed players. What we really need is more players (of all types. But seriously, bring more players.)
 
More players won't solve anything if they can't afford to play.

And a reference to accepting cash donations is NOT an announcement of a pay-no-play policy. Pay-no-play is cash for build. Cash donations is gobbies for cash, which can then be turned into other things besides just build.

Further, you cannot honestly tell me that if I showed up at an event and handed over $50 as a donation that that would be more useful at the event than two short swords for monster camp.
 
Sarah said:
Further, you cannot honestly tell me that if I showed up at an event and handed over $50 as a donation that that would be more useful at the event than two short swords for monster camp.
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Sometimes it really is. If at that time we can not afford to make the reservation for our next game then it is indeed more helpful. If we arrive at the event and have no weapons, it is less helpful (unless people will let me attack them with $50 bill all weekend). It is purely a matter of what is in demand at that time. Sometimes the demand is actual money.
 
*This is not a targeted response, not a flame, not a dig, not anything but an expounding on the topic at hand in order to promote broadened thought*

In every aspect of life, there are gonna be those who have more and those that have less than we do. Years ago, I used to play Magic:TG (the card game) a lot. I have something like ten thousand cards but I never could afford to get some of those OMG cards that the other guys I'd see at tournaments had. That forced me to come up with whacky combo's and themes in order to even try to compete with them, and it forced me to decide "Well, I can throw up my hands and never play tourneys cause I know I can't compete monetarily or I can still go, still have fun, and not base my level of fun/participation on what other people are doing." Even now, playing MMORPG's (WoW), we had a couple of guys in our guild who bought their characters off of ebay with all the top gear and a pile of gold. Some other guilds would have just kicked em out resenting that they hadn't played for a year straight to get where they were, but we decided to just roll our eyes and giggle behind our hands at them for being noobsauce and made them tank the big instances so the rest of us could get good drops that much easier.
The overall thought here I'm trying to introduce for people to roll around in their heads is, don't base how much fun you have at games on how cool your character's stats are compared to other players. If a character comes rolling into town with a six column but can't even remember the incants because they've never cast half of their spells, then don't invite them onto mods with ya and take pride in the fact that you are still a better character IG and OOG than they are. It'll make your game experience better, and honestly if you resent other people for having more money and means than you as it relates to a hobby like this, then you're going to be really unhappy in life where it's even worse and actually matters in the long run, and I only wish happiness on my friends and fellow players, so I hate to see that happen. Instead, be happy in knowing that by them spending cash instead of sweat to get where they got, our other friends on the other side of the game (owner and staff) won't be nearly as stressed out by not being able to pay site fees or reservations for future games. Less stress for them means more fun for all!
 
Sarah said:
Further, you cannot honestly tell me that if I showed up at an event and handed over $50 as a donation that that would be more useful at the event than two short swords for monster camp.
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Sometimes it really is. If at that time we can not afford to make the reservation for our next game then it is indeed more helpful. If we arrive at the event and have no weapons, it is less helpful (unless people will let me attack them with $50 bill all weekend). It is purely a matter of what is in demand at that time. Sometimes the demand is actual money.
 
I don't see the harm. I don't know of anyone buying massive amounts of build in bulk.

For one, at some point, pay-no-play gets ridiculous. If someone wants to spend $50 on three quarters of a build point, let 'em. That three quarters of a build point won't impact the game in any serious way. If a hundred players want to spend $50 to buy three-quarters of a build point (or even a whole build point, if you're fifteenth level), have at.

As it is, it takes two grand (40 "double-blankets" or two-day events at $50 ea.) to buy a fifteenth level character (and a grand to buy a tenth lvl character). If someone has two grand to plunk down at a game, more power to them. That's some serious props, costuming, and the like for a chapter. Personally, I have never seen it happen, nor do I expect to. There are some far more interesting things I could do with two grand than attend an event at fifteenth level.
 
jpariury said:
If someone has two grand to plunk down at a game, more power to them. That's some serious props, costuming, and the like for a chapter. Personally, I have never seen it happen, nor do I expect to.
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Actually, several years ago Daryl did just that. He wasn't doing it to pay-no-play though. The chapter needed money, and he donated about a thousand dollars so that the previous iteration of nero oregon could reserve sites for a year, buy new coin, etc. He basically walked away with all his future event fees covered (backblanketing and pay-no-play wasn't really worth it at Mykel's level).

I don't expect it to happen again, but it has happened once (and it was to help a chapter, not be a cheesemonkey! Egads!)
 
jpariury said:
I don't see the harm. I don't know of anyone buying massive amounts of build in bulk.
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I do, but I also only know of one person doing it. To quote a favorite "song" of mine:

"You know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony, they may think they're both faggots and they won't take either of them. And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in singin' a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day, I said fifty people a day walking in singin' a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. And friends they may think it's a movement."

Or, to clarify, tsunamis can start as the littlest quake out on the ocean floor.
 
While I do definately understand the inequality that a pay-no-play policy brings with it I'm more than willing to accept it in order to help a chapter. Every chapter I've ever been involved in was barely afloat financially. Generally over the course of an event a chapter simply hopes to break even. Occasionally you come out a few hundred ahead which will be immediately plowed back into the chapter.
A pay no play policy simply allows those without the ability, time or desire to donate items to instead donate cash. Given the options of creating weapons/packets which cost very little but consume large ammounts of time depending on one's ability or donating cash which takes an amount of time depending on one's job status, I'm willing to accept either. Money definately helps the chapter. While the chapter needs people to cut tags, build weapons and sew tabbards, the only way the chapter will really advance is by getting into higher quality costuming like masks, props, and consumable treasure like food and bottles of wine. Someone donating cash to the chapter helps this. I'd easily take $2,000 form someone and give them a 15th level character. It costs me nothing and it helps everybody.
 
obcidian said:
(backblanketing and pay-no-play wasn't really worth it at Mykel's level).
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[/quote]That's pretty much my point. I think my copy-pasting as I modified my response got that part mixed up. To whit, I don't see anyone plunking down a grand in order to play a tenth level character right out the gate. But, as I said, if they did, more power to them. A thousand dollars lets 40 npcs play-no-pay. It outfits an NPC camp with new supplies. It makes the tavern look like a tavern, rather than a converted cafeteria.

Please, please find me fifty people willing to pay a grand each to play 10th level characters, and I'll put on an event you can only dream about in your most fevered imagination. If you think the last event I helped write was even halfway decent, just see what I can do with fifty grand. You won't even notice those fifty tenth lvl characters.
 
Cash donations and pay-no-play are just as valid for supporting a chapter as donating some weapons, masks, printer ink, and paper.

Cash donations and pay-no-play serve the chapter outside of events for logistical purposes. Making/donating weapons, masks, and packets support the chapter within events. At an event the weapons and items would be more immediately helpful, but before/after the event the cash donation and/or pay-no-play helps the chapter prepare for the event/recover from the event/get ready for the next event.
 
Just a reminder that the Early Registration fee must be in before 2 weeks prior to the event, the sooner the better. (Time is running out! Buy now!) So far only a few people have made payments via this system, and we'd really like to lock in the April event so that we can put it on the calender for sure. Even if you're not 100% sure which character you'd like to play, send in your early registration anyways, and make sure to mention in your pre-reg email that you've early-registered with a different character.
Thanks!
 
For those of us without paypal (due to previous issues, I can't make an account) can we pay some other way? Mailing a check? If so, who should it be sent to?
 
Oh noes! You coulda just handed me cash at afters like Marc, Raissa, and Jessie did.
I'll PM you another way to do it (though I recommend the Paypal way for everyone who's able, since I get more info that way and it auto emails Dave and I saying you paid.)
~Matt
 
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