Redefining and Reviewing

[Talen]

The mist mechanic allows plot teams to control what comes into their game and what stays out from a plot standpoint. Examples being NPCs, PC controlled NPC resources (like armies, siege weapons, etc), and Monsters.

The mists serve as a plot device to help chapters stay distinct, but there is no reason why consenting plot teams cannot allow their armies/monsters to spread to each others chapters.

That's the sorta thing I was referring to.

Chapter 1 comes up with an awesome monster, the Arachnolepus. Chapter 2 thinks they're awesome and asks chapter 1 about them, then looks them up in the Monster Database to have properly statted out monster cards for them.

Chapter 2 then suffers a Plot-induced case of spiderabbits, whose combination of cute and creepy terrorize the kingdom.

 

[AllianceCHI]

Stephen,

To be fair, DFMs are not common where you play. Our chapter tossed a few DFMs (like 3-4) last season with a lower overall APL than some chapters out by you. In the last couple of years I have a few tossed at me and I could name a handfull of players who have been tagged by a "Dragon Magic/Greater Fea Curse" In the last few year alone. Of course we had out major endgame for a 5 yr plot.

In Chicago at least its usually done with warning and nothing goes out with "dragon magic" without all of plot agreeing to it and I suspect its the same wherever else I go. I have had these kinds of effects tossed at/near me in 5 different chapters and only in 1 occasion did I feel it wasnt called for.

I agree with putting the rules in the rulebook... the main concern is that adding that many pages might really drive up the cost. I am usually not a fan of FOIG as pertains to rules and would prefer to give the rule and remind the player that they dont know that IG. I find ive been able to trust most of my players. Your mileage may vary.

 

[kittenpunk2]

Stephen,
I agree with putting the rules in the rulebook... the main concern is that adding that many pages might really drive up the cost. I am usually not a fan of FOIG as pertains to rules and would prefer to give the rule and remind the player that they dont know that IG. I find ive been able to trust most of my players. Your mileage may vary.

i am constantly piching this game to my Friends and ppl i meat at events i go to and handing out flayers at Cons, one of the best salen points i have when talking a bout the rule books is its 1 book rather then 20 like D and D and the books under 20$s

 

[Gilwing]

I agree with putting the rules in the rulebook... the main concern is that adding that many pages might really drive up the cost. I am usually not a fan of FOIG as pertains to rules and would prefer to give the rule and remind the player that they dont know that IG. I find ive been able to trust most of my players. Your mileage may vary.

Couldn't agree more. Said it before in other topics, the rule book should be electronic and for free. That makes it available to the masses and can be updated with ease.

 

[RiddickDale]

Thanks Paul! Thats exactly the perspective that I was looking for.

I absolutely agree that the rulebook should include the basics for everything. The OP is correct in saying that we don't need the rules to cover every minute scenario.... but we should be as clear and consise as we can.

I think a lot of the issues regarding rulebook length could be resolved pretty easily. Our current rulebook has a lot of needless redundancy and clearing that up should free up a bunch of pages by themselves.

Having two distinct chapters that clearly explain all of the effects and "the way they should happen" would be a great start to help eliminate a lot of that.

(If we are looking to trim space in the book a lot of the guides like "How to be a Good <blank>" could be removed from the rulebook and added as online content on our website.... this not only frees up space in the rulebook.... but gives us the opportunity to add more whenever we want. That's great content.)

Any other ideas regarding how we could streamline the rules and/or their presentation?

 

[tazoulti]

(If we are looking to trim space in the book a lot of the guides like "How to be a Good <blank>" could be removed from the rulebook and added as online content on our website.... this not only frees up space in the rulebook.... but gives us the opportunity to add more whenever we want. That's great content.)

I'm 100% in favor of this aspect. Having those specific topics in free electronic format or online content would be an excellent improvement, simply because I know we could devote entire guidebooks on the "How to's" by themselves! (NPCing, examples of good sportmanship, writing modules & plot, heck even a tips guide on running Logistics smoothly...) And thereby, we can devote more of the hardcopy pages to rules not currently being presented.

 

[Wraith]

Let's see.

Cut the tabletop system and put it out as an extra on the website.

Re-organize the first half of the book to remove redundancy and clearly separate the advice and actual rules.

Remove the 'Game World' section entirely, given how different the local chapters' takes on it are.

Reorganize the second half of the book so all the actual mechanics are in one place and can be referred to, rather than having them scattered over ~150 pages.

That's just offhand, without the game changes I want that would really simplify things.

 

[Inaryn]

If the Game World stuff is removed, I'd actually like to advocate leaving in and perhaps expanding on "Becoming a Noble." I think it's a career path that a lot of people find desirable in game and it should absolutely be a standardized process throughout the Alliance for how a PC can become nobility, since it gives them extra power (politically) beyond their card in game.

 

[Lurin]

If the Game World stuff is removed, I'd actually like to advocate leaving in and perhaps expanding on "Becoming a Noble." I think it's a career path that a lot of people find desirable in game and it should absolutely be a standardized process throughout the Alliance for how a PC can become nobility, since it gives them extra power (politically) beyond their card in game.

Not to be contrary, but absolutely not on this one, dictating paths to nobility would do not but restrict plot staff ability and cause friction when a player believes he should have been nobled 'according to the book' but the plot staff isn't ready for it. Some chapters like to run heavily noble games with a strong percentage of the players being noble, or squires in at least some circles, others like to run fewer PC nobles, both are valid, reasonable set ups and should not be dictated.

 

[Inaryn]

If the Game World stuff is removed, I'd actually like to advocate leaving in and perhaps expanding on "Becoming a Noble." I think it's a career path that a lot of people find desirable in game and it should absolutely be a standardized process throughout the Alliance for how a PC can become nobility, since it gives them extra power (politically) beyond their card in game.

Not to be contrary, but absolutely not on this one, dictating paths to nobility would do not but restrict plot staff ability and cause friction when a player believes he should have been nobled 'according to the book' but the plot staff isn't ready for it. Some chapters like to run heavily noble games with a strong percentage of the players being noble, or squires in at least some circles, others like to run fewer PC nobles, both are valid, reasonable set ups and should not be dictated.

I have to ask, have you read the particular section? Because it talks about being a good player, in and out of game. I think that's something we should continue to encourage.

To be clear, I didn't mean codify it. Let chapters make their own actual paths for their game. Just, put a little more discussion into it.

 

[Lurin]

I've read it, but you can 'standardize it' without more explicit rules which I think would be a mistake. What would you base it on, time, goblin stamp level, character level? I don't think this is something that can really be further standardized simply due to the fact that each chapter has it's own needs from it's nobility.

 

[jpariury]

the rule book should be electronic and for free

The rulebook is available in electronic format, but I disagree that it should be free. The formatting and compiling take time and effort to do, and I do not begrudge someone wanting to cover their costs and maybe make a little extra besides.

If we are looking to trim space in the book a lot of the guides like "How to be a Good <blank>" could be removed from the rulebook and added as online content on our website....

I strongly disagree. When someone picks up the rulebook, especially new players or even new prospective players, these sections are absolutely vital. I think that people who want those sections removed are looking for a strictly utilitarian document, which the rulebook fulfills but is not intended to be solely used as such. To go more tabletop, sure, you could save space by cutting out a lot of the Erin Tarn stuff, but you'd lose a lot of what helps new players get into the feel of the game. While every tabletop Rifts group may have their own flavor, the source material should remain and helps guide both the game runners as well as the game players into a rough (if not precise) idea of what the game is about.

 

[Inaryn]

I've read it, but you can 'standardize it' without more explicit rules which I think would be a mistake. What would you base it on, time, goblin stamp level, character level? I don't think this is something that can really be further standardized simply due to the fact that each chapter has it's own needs from it's nobility.

I think I misspoke. What I meant was expanding the section, to more thoroughly discuss what it takes and what things a player should expect when attempting this career path. Even if it's just a reference back to how to be a good player or game infractions (as a don't do these things reference.) Doing stuff like character level would codify the system, which I've already said was not what I intended.

Maybe explicitly discuss that just "putting in your time" isn't enough, and stuff like that.

So, rather, turn it into a guide for both player and plot team for figuring out who gets the pretty white belts.

 

[SkollWolfrun]

the rule book should be electronic and for free

The rulebook is available in electronic format, but I disagree that it should be free. The formatting and compiling take time and effort to do, and I do not begrudge someone wanting to cover their costs and maybe make a little extra besides.

If we are looking to trim space in the book a lot of the guides like "How to be a Good <blank>" could be removed from the rulebook and added as online content on our website....

I strongly disagree. When someone picks up the rulebook, especially new players or even new prospective players, these sections are absolutely vital. I think that people who want those sections removed are looking for a strictly utilitarian document, which the rulebook fulfills but is not intended to be solely used as such. To go more tabletop, sure, you could save space by cutting out a lot of the Erin Tarn stuff, but you'd lose a lot of what helps new players get into the feel of the game. While every tabletop Rifts group may have their own flavor, the source material should remain and helps guide both the game runners as well as the game players into a rough (if not precise) idea of what the game is about.

Have to agree. The additional sections were helpful to me in rounding out my character (it's still to be played, but you know how it goes). People without an extensive background in RPGs (like my 13 year old) also found some of the pointers useful (the overacting portion comes naturally to him though).
I bandied about the idea of seperating the sections out like some suggest, but one of the draws is having 'The One Book To Rule Them All' TM and not the D&D 35 widgets to make a full group (and keep revenues coming because they updated your Bladesinger Elf).

 

[RiddickDale]

Fair enough.

My suggestion was based on the concern that page space was at a premium. If it's not, then by all means lets go to town! (No sarcasm either... I'm a huge fan of the guides themselves.)

With that said... there is no reason we cant have the OMGEssential guides in the rulebook and then have other well written/edited guides available on the website.

I think I'll refer that idea to that National Publicity guy... maybe he'll do something with it. :thumbsup:

Stephen

 

[Anazstaizia]

I like the idea of keeping the basic "how to be X" guides in the book. How to NPC, Your First Game, etc. But do we really need the "how to be a thief/bad guy/spy" sections to be in the rulebook? The thief rules should be covered under the "rogueing cabins" sections, and the very specific roleplay tips should really be online. Heck, that'd be a fun project for people to pitch in on. Make an online database of "how to be/do/act..." with articles submitted by players to cover a wider ranger of RP situations.

 

[Dan Nickname Beshers]

Maybe it's my numbers guy bias, but I'd like to see at least an effort to include more visual representations of things. Like a chart with the deliveries at the top, a comprehensive lists of defensives (and weapon blocking) along the side, and a simple, three symbol guide to Automatically blocks, May choose to block, Cannot Block. Same thing for effect groups. I feel like people are basically just building those charts in their heads and memories anyway, so providing a correct visual cuts down on errors.

 

[Jim]

Maybe it's my numbers guy bias, but I'd like to see at least an effort to include more visual representations of things. Like a chart with the deliveries at the top, a comprehensive lists of defensives (and weapon blocking) along the side, and a simple, three symbol guide to Automatically blocks, May choose to block, Cannot Block. Same thing for effect groups. I feel like people are basically just building those charts in their heads and memories anyway, so providing a correct visual cuts down on errors.

This! +1

 

[prashka]

Maybe it's my numbers guy bias, but I'd like to see at least an effort to include more visual representations of things. Like a chart with the deliveries at the top, a comprehensive lists of defensives (and weapon blocking) along the side, and a simple, three symbol guide to Automatically blocks, May choose to block, Cannot Block. Same thing for effect groups. I feel like people are basically just building those charts in their heads and memories anyway, so providing a correct visual cuts down on errors.

This! +1

+2

 

[Mike Ventrella]

Maybe it's my numbers guy bias, but I'd like to see at least an effort to include more visual representations of things. Like a chart with the deliveries at the top, a comprehensive lists of defensives (and weapon blocking) along the side, and a simple, three symbol guide to Automatically blocks, May choose to block, Cannot Block. Same thing for effect groups. I feel like people are basically just building those charts in their heads and memories anyway, so providing a correct visual cuts down on errors.

I agree completely, and could use some help in that department when we finally get around to Alliance 2.0 which probably won't be until 2112.

I have big plans to simplify the rules and the book with that edition. It will be a huge project, and I want to do it right.