[.11] Riposting strike, stealth skill that gives martial prereqs?

Tantarus

Squire
I am curious why it was decided that Riposting Strike which can be both with either stealth or martial skills is considered only a martial skill when it comes to counting as prereqs?

You can buy it so much that as a high level rogue you end up with 40+ build spent into it. But it hampers your assassinate, etc progression because it is martial prereq. Putting you several levels worth of build behind of prereqs. Where as Fighters it works great for.

Shouldn't it be counted towards the prereqs you used to buy it instead, as to not hamper rogues pregression? Or maybe count as both so it doesn't hold rogues back?
 

dontneednoname

Newbie
Marshal
Because rogues need more stuff! I mean the best damage output in the game, pseudo spellcasting (alchemy and create trap), and dodge and evade, the best defence in the game and the best weapon defence in the game, isn’t enough for you. Fighters were beat bloody by the nerf bat, give us something.
 

Tantarus

Squire
Didnt say take it from fighters. I said both get it for there own prereq, but only fighters benefits from it for further skills. Which seems weird.

I think fighter is fine. Assuming access to spell parry. I plan on probably playing one, though a hobling with like 80 build in racials...

I just find it weird that pure rogues end up with 48 build in martial at level 40. Without buying a single fighter skill.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Eviscerate is the new Rogue capstone.

Once a Rogue has 330 XP in Stealth skills, they can buy 12 Ripostes (technically, they can buy 13, but they only need 12).

Then they buy Eviscerate, and can use 500 Doom 12 times a day, 13 once they buy the 13th Riposte.

It’s only possible around the low 40s, but that’s not nearly as rare as it used to be.
 

Tantarus

Squire
I dont disagree, that said at 40, your assassinate is 300. If ripostes where stealth anyhow.

So a straight rogue could do 300 dooms. Without any fighter skills.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Sure, they could.

But they could also just do with that with the Stealth XP; they can have both.

Edit: To clarify, you need 333 XP in Stealth for 300 Assassinates.
 

Tantarus

Squire
Yes, I am saying that ripostes set you back 40+ XP in stealth prereqs at that level.

Are you saying this was intentional design as to allow rogues to get a single Eviscerate easier?
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Yes, I am saying that ripostes set you back 40+ XP in stealth prereqs at that level.

Are you saying this was intentional design as to allow rogues to get a single Eviscerate easier?
I can’t say it is or isn’t; I’m not an author. I suspect it’s just a relic of 1.3, where some skills had both Backstabs and Profs as pre-reqs, but that didn’t matter because pre-reqs had nothing to do with skill XP. In the skill XP system, it leads to identity issues, IMO, because it serves as a cheap gateway to skills you probably shouldn’t qualify for.
 

dontneednoname

Newbie
Marshal
Easy solution, remove riposting strike from stealth side entirely. Let fighters have something that rogues want but will have a hard time getting. Kinda like dodge.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
I’m actually totally fine with making Riposte Parry/Intercept (or Mettle or whatever) only for trigger, and deleting it from Stealth. Rogues have OppAtt for non-positional, we have Alchemy, we have a suite of CC attacks. We don’t really need Riposte.
 

Tantarus

Squire
I’m actually totally fine with making Riposte Parry/Intercept (or Mettle or whatever) only for trigger, and deleting it from Stealth. Rogues have OppAtt for non-positional, we have Alchemy, we have a suite of CC attacks. We don’t really need Riposte.
Also bows.

That said, Linking it to parry as the prime way to trigger it is kinda bad. As you cant use it with a spell parry, which at the high end tend to eat up alot of your parry use.

Also kinda punishing for scouts.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Also bows.

That said, Linking it to parry as the prime way to trigger it is kinda bad. As you cant use it with a spell parry, which at the high end tend to eat up alot of your parry use.

Also kinda punishing for scouts.
Which is why I believe it needs a secondary trigger. I think Intercept is a good one, because it rewards Fighters for teamwork.

It doesn’t punish Scouts; it makes the skill less OP, which is probably a good thing. Scouts also don’t need that much help.
 

Tantarus

Squire
So scouts are good in a static damage matters world. But they have many less daily effects then a rogue or fighter of the same level.
 

Tantarus

Squire
Any owners care to chime in on this one? Seems like a weird choice to me. Rogues (Evade and dodge) can trigger this skill more then twice what a fighter (Parry) can. But it is a fighter skill. Something seems clunky.

Also this over taxes Parries between ripostes and Spell parries.
 

Alkalin3

Administrator
Chief Technology Officer
South Michigan Staff
Marshal
I'll chime in on the voting process here.

ARC specifically came up with this proposal and our options were to vote it down entirely or not. We voted to move forward even though there might have been minor things some owners didn't like.
 

Tantarus

Squire
@Alkalin3 Thanks for the reply.

It is super awkward that as a fighter I have 10 parries, and 10 riposte. If I happen to use a spell parry that is one riposte I can't even use for the day.

But as Rogue I get 10 riposte and 10 dodge plus 15 evades to riposte off of. No conflict like spell parry. But it counts as fighter build putting me behind on stealth skills.

Seems like a skill that needs some fixing or attention at least. I plan to test it heavily as a rogue and fighter. Though I am a hobling fighter so I have more flexibility in trying to use them.
 
Top