Ritual Activation Question
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Seattle_Dave
Newbie
I think this might need to be referred to the ARC in Bryan's absence.
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Baron
I assume that if we haven't obtained an answer from the ARC by the event we will go by JP's interpretation?
i.e. To be in possession of a magic item of an incapacitated person it must be removed from the previous owner completely (pouch removed from belt, shirt removed from body, boot removed from foot, ring from finger, etc) in order to be used.
i.e. To be in possession of a magic item of an incapacitated person it must be removed from the previous owner completely (pouch removed from belt, shirt removed from body, boot removed from foot, ring from finger, etc) in order to be used.
Seattle_Dave
Newbie
sounds reasonable to me... though I wish ARC would anser this one 
Maxondaerth
Squire
Yeah, because i know a whole lot of precedent exists for people activating spells off spirit linked items on their teammates. If we're not supposed to be doing that would be a big change in tactics. I'm cool if that's the rule, but to know would be sweet.
Just for some additional perspective.
A ritual is cast on a spirit (I.E. a person). You can only be in possession of your own spirit. So it is not possible for another person to activate rituals on anyone else spirit (barring plot hyjinks). Once someone is dead you can be in possession of their body, and therefore possess all the objects on said body. Which would allow you to activate any item that you know how to use that are on that body.
If that person is not dead (Sleeping, paralyzed, bleeding out) they are still in possession of their body, and you would have to physically remove an Item to be allowed to activate it.
Spirit linked items are linked by magic to the spirit, and can never leave the possession of the person they are linked to.
Tags are out of game and should be dealt with as soon as possible, without ruining the in-game action. I know when I grab an item from someone that I know how to use I usually ask in a quick whisper, is there any of X,y or Z left? They then fill in the appropriate response. The time for that is like taking a second to focus on it to see if anything is left in the item.
I read through the whole thread just now, so all the different opinions are running around in there and i don't remember exactly what anyone said, but I think that is about the same as what JP was going with.
A ritual is cast on a spirit (I.E. a person). You can only be in possession of your own spirit. So it is not possible for another person to activate rituals on anyone else spirit (barring plot hyjinks). Once someone is dead you can be in possession of their body, and therefore possess all the objects on said body. Which would allow you to activate any item that you know how to use that are on that body.
If that person is not dead (Sleeping, paralyzed, bleeding out) they are still in possession of their body, and you would have to physically remove an Item to be allowed to activate it.
Spirit linked items are linked by magic to the spirit, and can never leave the possession of the person they are linked to.
Tags are out of game and should be dealt with as soon as possible, without ruining the in-game action. I know when I grab an item from someone that I know how to use I usually ask in a quick whisper, is there any of X,y or Z left? They then fill in the appropriate response. The time for that is like taking a second to focus on it to see if anything is left in the item.
I read through the whole thread just now, so all the different opinions are running around in there and i don't remember exactly what anyone said, but I think that is about the same as what JP was going with.
jpariury
Duke
That is not my stance. Whether or not a body is dead, you must remove the object from that body in order to use it.sunnfire said:
You should never pick up a body and assume that a ritual is available on it for use. IMO, you shouldn't even ask someone OOG if a ritual is available. (What if I don't want you to know?)
Maxondaerth
Squire
Yeah, say for example I have a ring that has 3/day Life spells. JP knows I have this ring, and how to use it, but doesn't know if I've used it or not. He finds me on the ground and determines I am in fact, dead. (assuming he'd do this) He should then take off my ring, say "Activate: Life" and hit me with a packet, then ask me if it worked. If I had used all three charges already I could then tell him "Nothing happens, you pull the trigger and it goes *click*". Otherwise, if he wants to take that ring and go off and use it on someone else, he should go through the process of having it Identified in a CoP.
IANAM but that's how it should go IMO and that's what I'd do.
IANAM but that's how it should go IMO and that's what I'd do.
I can see that.
The reason I see the 'possession of body' thing other way is this.
If my item is inside a pouch, which is inside a bag which I then attach to my belt, and I can activate it, how does that differ from me picking up an object (your body) which is wearing a necklace that I know how to activate. Technically its even one step less 'removed' from me.
If the body becomes an object, that is a legal target for effect deliveries like any other object, why should it be treated differently in the circumstance of activates?
I also thought that if you knew how to activate an item, you could tell how much it had left in it. Here is why.
I have a death 5/day item (ahh to dream!)
I activate it 3 times.
Lets say I forget how many times I used it (amnesia, silly biata, whatever). I can take out my ring and look at its charges. In game I am examining the item for how many uses it has left. I don't go get it identified it to see what is left. Beyond going to get it identified to find out what it is, nobody ever goes back to re-identify an item (minus weird plot stuff). So someone used it while you were asleep, pulled the appropriate tags, put it back and then left you to sleep. When you wake up, and check your tags you know that use is gone, because you don't see people going I have a life spell right here... activate..... oh crap! That happens when you haven't had time to check the tags, and you grab it from someone and ask it it activates properly.
Let alone the fact that you can't start an incant without having the ability to use said incant. You cannot actually say 'Activate Life', did that work? Because saying activate life is actually using the item. If you say 'Activate' and you have no items, you are saying activate to make someone think you are activating an item, when it is not possible for you to do so. Its like saying prepare to die, when you have no fighter skills. You cant do it.
So out of game you need to have the, 'does this have charges left' conversation. Part of that conversation has to be how many. Because if I grab your life item and go, I'm attempting to activate this does it have charges left, and you say , yes, and I life the guy next to you and run off out of sight, and start trying to life other people its going to be all sorts of problematic. You cant say that I don't know if it will work, because without having it identified again I could use it. If I go to activate it again I will know immediately if it will work, and without you giving me that out of game information, it could cause all sorts of issues.
I am totally down with, IN Game you have no idea if it will work till you try it. But you need to know out of game before you ever start the incant if that item has charges.
The in-game side of it doesn't really matter to me. I would be cool with either, knowing what its got or not. Out of game you need to know.
The reason I see the 'possession of body' thing other way is this.
If my item is inside a pouch, which is inside a bag which I then attach to my belt, and I can activate it, how does that differ from me picking up an object (your body) which is wearing a necklace that I know how to activate. Technically its even one step less 'removed' from me.
If the body becomes an object, that is a legal target for effect deliveries like any other object, why should it be treated differently in the circumstance of activates?
I also thought that if you knew how to activate an item, you could tell how much it had left in it. Here is why.
I have a death 5/day item (ahh to dream!)
I activate it 3 times.
Lets say I forget how many times I used it (amnesia, silly biata, whatever). I can take out my ring and look at its charges. In game I am examining the item for how many uses it has left. I don't go get it identified it to see what is left. Beyond going to get it identified to find out what it is, nobody ever goes back to re-identify an item (minus weird plot stuff). So someone used it while you were asleep, pulled the appropriate tags, put it back and then left you to sleep. When you wake up, and check your tags you know that use is gone, because you don't see people going I have a life spell right here... activate..... oh crap! That happens when you haven't had time to check the tags, and you grab it from someone and ask it it activates properly.
Let alone the fact that you can't start an incant without having the ability to use said incant. You cannot actually say 'Activate Life', did that work? Because saying activate life is actually using the item. If you say 'Activate' and you have no items, you are saying activate to make someone think you are activating an item, when it is not possible for you to do so. Its like saying prepare to die, when you have no fighter skills. You cant do it.
So out of game you need to have the, 'does this have charges left' conversation. Part of that conversation has to be how many. Because if I grab your life item and go, I'm attempting to activate this does it have charges left, and you say , yes, and I life the guy next to you and run off out of sight, and start trying to life other people its going to be all sorts of problematic. You cant say that I don't know if it will work, because without having it identified again I could use it. If I go to activate it again I will know immediately if it will work, and without you giving me that out of game information, it could cause all sorts of issues.
I am totally down with, IN Game you have no idea if it will work till you try it. But you need to know out of game before you ever start the incant if that item has charges.
The in-game side of it doesn't really matter to me. I would be cool with either, knowing what its got or not. Out of game you need to know.
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Baron
I have another activation question:
If you have a magic item that has a spell activatable more then 1/day can that be activated by more then one person at the same time?
Example: You have a magic item with Circle of Power 4/day. Can 4 people touch the item and all 4 people activate a seperate charge of the Circle of Power, thus creating a 4 caster Circle of Power?
I would say, "Yes", but I am not a marshal and figured it would be good to ask.
If you have a magic item that has a spell activatable more then 1/day can that be activated by more then one person at the same time?
Example: You have a magic item with Circle of Power 4/day. Can 4 people touch the item and all 4 people activate a seperate charge of the Circle of Power, thus creating a 4 caster Circle of Power?
I would say, "Yes", but I am not a marshal and figured it would be good to ask.
Maxondaerth
Squire
I know we tried that very question in the past and it was "no" primarily for the posession reason. Only one person can posess the item at a time, so two people can't activate it at the same time.