Rogues of Alliance, how to be effective in combat?

Discussion in 'New Player Discussions' started by Axle, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. Axle

    Axle Newbie

    Hi there,

    I recently tried out rogue as my first character and I had a lot of fun, but I became pretty frustrated in situations like line battles as I found I couldn't effectively contribute due to poor flanking conditions. I tried to supplement with some thrown weapons but still felt pretty ineffective.

    Do you long time roguers have any advice or wisdom for fighting as a rogue in general? Tips and tricks you found? Cool combat stories? Please share.
     
  2. PirateFox

    PirateFox Scholar

    Most fights, you don't have to engage to be effective. Looming around, waiting for that chance to murder the enemy caster/leader is often enough to have them dedicate 3-4 people to stop you, which takes them out of the fight faster than fighting them. Also, racing by and hitting for a little damage here and there is great for breaking up tight enemy groupings. Rogues are about strategy and tricks, not usually straight-up murderhoboing unless the moment is right.
     
  3. Draven

    Draven Baron Seattle Staff Marshal

    The rogues I see successful in Seattle

    1) Run. A. Lot.

    2) Guerrilla-style a lot. Sneak around enemy group; quick steps behind target, strike/strike, runrunrunrunaway.

    3) Wears all the dark clothing.

    4) Uses concealment whenever possible.
     
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  4. Draven

    Draven Baron Seattle Staff Marshal

    I'm not going to lie; rogue combat can be really fun, but I also consider it to be the #1 Most Physically Demanding class period. If you aren't physically up to it (and I'm not saying you are one way or the other), I wouldn't generally recommend it unless you were heavily reliant on alchemy or ranged combat (and in the case of the latter, probably just being a fighter).
     
  5. Avaran

    Avaran Baron Marshal

    To Evan's points: You can play as a Rogue without being an actual Rogue; I play this style as a Fighter (can confirm, physically demanding). It's just generally safer to play that way as a Rogue because of their innate Dodge defense, and their cheap Alchemy as a quick take-out.
     
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  6. MondayMcGee

    MondayMcGee Newbie

    To address line battles specifically, I've found there's a fair bit of utility in just being a really poorly specced fighter. I can't really kill anything from the front, but I can plug a hole in the line. That allows the big damage folks to refit more freely, which saves resources. Also, there's s lot to be said for just hitting somebody. Even if you're doing a trivial amount of damage, most enemies will still pay at least some attention to your blows, and you can create openings for your fighter or caster buddies.

    Line battle rogue is definitely a support class style of play, and definitely frustrating at times. But I've actually come to enjoy the challenge.
     
  7. Inaryn

    Inaryn Squire San Francisco Staff Marshal

    Production. Learn how to use it, what to use it on, when to use it, and, most importantly, learn to not be afraid to use it.

    I don't have a rogue, per se... but I have and continue to find that knowing the ins and outs of using production items will leave you with a never ending bag of tricks to pull from.

    Also, can't hurt to find the loud mouth guy who pisses off the monsters and becoming her friend. You'll find that sometimes they're so effective at what they do that they'll create glorious chasms of opportunity for you.
     
  8. Muir

    Muir Rogue

    Get a bow, especially if you can afford to dip into alchemy and get a workshop to let you double-coat arrows with vorpals. Works as an excellent blocking weapon for dual wielding too, so if you see a chance to get a back you can pull a weapon in your throwing hand and go to town.

    My 'ideal' rogue setup is a bow and shortsword, with the shortsword set up to be easily drawn and sheathed so you can go back and forth depending on range. Arrows with vorpal coatings can make you a bigger threat than you would otherwise seem at the cost of throwing gold at the problem, and alchemical takeout effects are good on some enemies.

    Couple that with a buddy who can provide earth blades or elemental blades, and you're in good position to be an all-purpose damage provider.
     
  9. Gilwing

    Gilwing Knight Alliance Logistics

    Find a couple of people to fight along side of.
    Stick to the edges of the line in the line fight. Get your group to pull off an opponent. Then while you're fighting with your group casually make your way behind at opponent and unload. If they turn around fight defensive while the rest of the group poundson that person. When they turn back around (it's only natural that they do) you unload again.
     
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  10. mikestrauss

    mikestrauss Fighter

    Dave pretty much nailed it. One of the biggest advantages of a rogue is that they present a credible flanking threat at roughly half the level of a fighter. And since leveling slows down, that means that in a flanking situation, a 1 year old rogue character is roughly as dangerous as a 3+ year old fighter. Heck, it only takes about 5 years of play for a rogue to compare to a 20 year old fighter character, in a flanking situation.

    For a variety of reasons, I think the fighter - rogue flank is better than either the fighter - fighter flank or the rogue - rogue flank, but the important point to take from this is that rogues offer a quick path to offensive power in a common tactical situation.

    -MS

    P.S. - Thrown weapons are a smart idea. Unless you are already wearing about a dozen at a time, I suggest getting more.
     
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  11. markusdark

    markusdark Knight

    To be fair, the site that you played at for your first event (Camp Krem in SF Bay area) doesn't really lend itself to your typical 'rogue' fighting style. The common fighting areas have a maximum side by side room of roughly five abreast with the sides either "fenced in" by other buildings or actual fences. They were more 'corridor battles' than any sort of skirmish. That area is a bit of an 'advanced city rogue' style if you will. :) I was playing an NPC rogue type during the big elemental battle Saturday night and found having a partner to lure people into striking range from the shadows of the railed stairs worked well. However, as an NPC, I didn't have to worry about being trapped up in said stairwell as I could die and just respawn.

    In such a setting, I'd suggest working in a team, preferably with someone who is more about healing than fighting. Work your way/set yourself up down an alleyway and when a target presents itself strike with your Terminate/Assassinate/Backstab with just a couple of hits than retreat back. Don't stay to fight. You've hit the enemy that will cause them to turn or at least distract them from another flank of attack, giving your fighters an advantage which will turn their attention back and yet they will still 'keep an eye' out for you in case you return, splitting their concentration for the fight. And that's one of the important jobs of rogues in battles; split the enemy's attention and allow the warriors have more opportunities to find holes in their defenses.

    If you don't get back down the alleyway in a few seconds, your healing partner can come down and see about healing you. When you get a chance (and it may take a little while unless you find a rich or influential benefactor) is to get a 1/day activatable Life magic Item and let your healing partner know about it. They can run up to you, do a quick "Healing Arts are you Dead?" If you haven't been downed for over 60 seconds, you say "No" and they can hit you with a cure light wounds. If you respond with "Yes," they can activate your magic item (should make sure it it worn somewhere they can easily get to it to activate it although I'm not 100% certain of the rules these days if you have to actually touch a magic item to activate its power or just carry it/be aware of where it resides). Either way, you're up and out of the area in under 3 seconds. Meanwhile, do get more ranged weapons because as you advance more in level, the more damage you can do from range and even deliver Terminates from the front with them.

    Once you get to fight in an area that has a wide open field, you'll learn all about the flanking harassing ability of the rogue.
     
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