Shield Bashing

evi1r0n

evi1r0n

Exemplar
I was just wondering why we don't have "shield bashing" with heavily padded shields like some games? Is there any other reason besides safety or insurance?
 
How do you propose leveling the playing field a bit for big players? Shield pushing/striking seems to be what some boff games are using successfully.
One thing I have noticed about this game is how much it truly favors the small and fast. I am 6'2" 300+lbs and I get lit up constantly by folks who are half my size. The two problems I have are: one I am naturally slow, two I am a huge target. Now I know strength-wise I am probably stronger than about 90% of the players at my chapter (not a challenge or a slight against my fellow players I am just bigger) but that is completely negated by the rules thus leaving me open to all sorts of nasty attacks. Any ideas?
Before I get the obvious train and lose weight reply, I have been doing both of those things. 15lbs now all inspired by Alliance and I train in sword play as often as possible.
 
Well I can't answer this for you. The game's motto is "Be all that you Can't be!" but that is a little bit of a misnomer. All I could suggest is to get more Weapon Profs so that the blows that you do land do more damage. I'd offer you other suggestions but it borders on outright cheating and that is something that most people frown upon. ;)

Physically shoving your opponents around would just cause too much trouble and danger - although I'd play in such a LARP in a heartbeat. I love being thrown around in combat but even RPing such effects or injuries wind up having people calling holds because they think I've been injured.
 
The usual way that people take advantage of their strength and size is generally by wearing heavier armor. That is basically the justification for why we haven't gone to 'representative' armor and still use 'heavy' materials for the 3 point gear, so that stronger players still have an advantage over faster ones in some venues.
 
the game's built for jackrabbits, nothin' for it. 'bout all us bigger guys get for advantage is arm length. get yourself a polearm and fight over your ally's head
 
Depending upon your definition of charging, maybe. But I can be standing face to face with my opponent and then extend my shield and push him back out of the way, or move him to a more advantageous position for my teammates without actually running towards them.

I do play in another game that not only allows me to place my shield against someone and 'pin' them to a wall (via a shield ability) but there is also a "Knockout" strike with a shield that requires me to bring it up to the opponent's face rapidly. Once again, the onus is on me to do it safely and thus far, no one has been remotely injured due to it.

The only trouble with more armor is that it really is not all that effective. A 5th level fighter can dual wield and swing for 5 points of damage. A 'jackrabbit' can hit someone 7 times in under 10 seconds, which breaches the maximum armor a fighter can wear. Get an opponent swinging 10's and that armor is gone before you know it.

The system increases damage as you advance but other than buying "wear extra armor" at the cost of 1 point per 1 BP (and adding on the additional weight), you don't really increase the defensive ability of armor. In most games, I don't even bother wearing it because it is easier to keep Magic Armor scrolls strapped to my wrist with a packet and take a quick step back and cast the spell on me, which will stop blows that would even cleave a fully armored 25th level fighter in half.

I do wear an armored sash as my gypsy but it is made in such a way that all I have to do is drop my right shoulder and it falls to the ground when it is breached - which happens usually by the third hit.
 
evi1r0n said:
How do you propose leveling the playing field a bit for big players? Shield pushing/striking seems to be what some boff games are using successfully.
One thing I have noticed about this game is how much it truly favors the small and fast. I am 6'2" 300+lbs and I get lit up constantly by folks who are half my size. The two problems I have are: one I am naturally slow, two I am a huge target. Now I know strength-wise I am probably stronger than about 90% of the players at my chapter (not a challenge or a slight against my fellow players I am just bigger) but that is completely negated by the rules thus leaving me open to all sorts of nasty attacks. Any ideas?
Before I get the obvious train and lose weight reply, I have been doing both of those things. 15lbs now all inspired by Alliance and I train in sword play as often as possible.
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There's no cure for it. I'm six and a half feet tall, pushing three fifty, and have just resigned myself to working my reach because the combat system is built entirely to favor the light, fast, short guys. From the size limits on shields to the proliferation of minimum-necessary armor and ultralight longswords, every development is just going to make the game easier for the quick ones. It is part of why I occasionally consider just giving this up and going back to fighting SCA, where at least I can take advantage of my size to throw a good blow and put some force behind a scutum. :mrgreen:
 
Wraith said:
There's no cure for it. I'm six and a half feet tall, pushing three fifty, and have just resigned myself to working my reach because the combat system is built entirely to favor the light, fast, short guys. From the size limits on shields to the proliferation of minimum-necessary armor and ultralight longswords, every development is just going to make the game easier for the quick ones. It is part of why I occasionally consider just giving this up and going back to fighting SCA, where at least I can take advantage of my size to throw a good blow and put some force behind a scutum. :mrgreen:
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/derail on

I fought fighters like you in the SCA and it was great fun! At 130lbs and 6' tall I was thrown all over the place by the 6'6" 350lbs fighters that hit me so hard with one swing it almost always caused me to drop my shield, or bash me off my feet with their shield! It fast taught me to redirect the damage instead of take the force straight on.

/derail off

Ron, the only thing I can recommend is to practice practice practice. And get your arms nice and strong so you can move them faster. And perhaps get a spear or staff for blocking instead of a shield; the length of a spear or staff allows you to protect most of your body a bit better than a shield by just moving it from side to side. And since you are a caster the free hand can be used to chuck your spells!

Other than that, there isn't much else that can be done.
 
obcidian_bandit said:
The usual way that people take advantage of their strength and size is generally by wearing heavier armor. That is basically the justification for why we haven't gone to 'representative' armor and still use 'heavy' materials for the 3 point gear, so that stronger players still have an advantage over faster ones in some venues.
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The only issue I have with that is there are certain kinds of strength. I have a bad back and am obviously overweight. I know how use that weight (my dark secret is I used to play football, totally kills nerd cred) to move another player around with little fear of harming myself but lugging the extra weight makes me unable to walk come Saturday. But that could certainly benefit other big players at early levels.

markusdark said:
The only trouble with more armor is that it really is not all that effective. A 5th level fighter can dual wield and swing for 5 points of damage. A 'jackrabbit' can hit someone 7 times in under 10 seconds, which breaches the maximum armor a fighter can wear. Get an opponent swinging 10's and that armor is gone before you know it.
The system increases damage as you advance but other than buying "wear extra armor" at the cost of 1 point per 1 BP (and adding on the additional weight), you don't really increase the defensive ability of armor. In most games, I don't even bother wearing it because it is easier to keep Magic Armor scrolls strapped to my wrist with a packet and take a quick step back and cast the spell on me, which will stop blows that would even cleave a fully armored 25th level fighter in half.
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I concur. My armor has been drastically reduced almost every game in favor of mobility.

phedre said:
And wouldn't you have to charge someone to shield bash?
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Just for fun: Technically anyone fighting me with anything shorter than a longsword is charging me per the rules. With my reach I can reach out and touch almost anyone fighting with a shortsword or dagger. "If you have moved so close to your opponent that he or she can hold out a hand and touch you, you are probably charging." ;)

Okay so obviously I am not the only big man with issues. After reading the replies I can understand the safety concerns. The last thing I would want to do is actually hurt another player. I like the idea of using reach. I do fight with a long sword. I use a style that heavily plays to my reach. I also throw spells so that helps too. I think it was the favoring of speed that made me switch out of the fighter class after my first event. I am now an Earth Templar.

Thanks all for answering my question so quickly. Any of you going to the next Seattle game I will see you there! :D
 
The best bet, as a tall person going the fighter route, is to take advantage of your reach. Consider a polearm or other two-handed weapon - they're defensively less sound than sword-and-board if someone gets inside your guard, but they're the devil to get inside in the first place.

I'm not as tall as you (a bit shy of 6') but have used polearm for years with my fighter largely because of that equalizing influence of taking my longer reach and making it really count. Fight with friends, use their shields on either side of you, and you'll be simply amazed at how effective it can be.

If you've got your heart set on sword/board: I've seen a number of tall folks use a hunched over fighting style that reduces their disadvantage due to height. I'm not personally a fan of it, but it's something others have used very effectively.
 
Morganne said:
The best bet, as a tall person going the fighter route, is to take advantage of your reach. Consider a polearm or other two-handed weapon - they're defensively less sound than sword-and-board if someone gets inside your guard, but they're the devil to get inside in the first place.

I'm not as tall as you (a bit shy of 6') but have used polearm for years with my fighter largely because of that equalizing influence of taking my longer reach and making it really count. Fight with friends, use their shields on either side of you, and you'll be simply amazed at how effective it can be.

If you've got your heart set on sword/board: I've seen a number of tall folks use a hunched over fighting style that reduces their disadvantage due to height. I'm not personally a fan of it, but it's something others have used very effectively.
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Abandoned sword and shield for longsword and spells. Templar suits me better.
 
evi1r0n said:
I was just wondering why we don't have "shield bashing" with heavily padded shields like some games? Is there any other reason besides safety or insurance?
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Got it in one. There's a lot of people who play that this simply would not be a safe practice, even with enough padding. And a lot of places it wouldn't be all that safe, either considering indoors combat is not only possible, but frequent.
 
My hobling used to tank fights all the time! It's called rogues with Evades and Dodges along with either sword/board or my preferred method, two stick jock. Rogue goes toe to toe with said baddie while the fighters circle around behind, rogue is on full defense blocking and juking, fighters start bashing on the baddie for 8's, 10's, 12's, etc and when the baddie turns about to face that threat, he starts eating 20's from behind. We used this tactic any time anything came in swinging big with nasty carriers. Figure a rogue wearing 20pt suit with six backstabs fighting a critter swinging 17 Death (seen it): 6 Evades + 3 Dodges + 1 Magic Armor + 1 Riposte= Bad guy having to actually HIT said rogue (who is fighting entirely defensively) 13 times in order for the Death carrier to affect him/her. That's a pretty good tank in my book.
 
Arkade said:
No one can realy tank fights, but it'ed be cool if they could.
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I tank. I'm a fighter, it's all I do. There are other fighters in my chapter that deal more damage then me at lower level, but I tank pretty well. It's a fighting style, with a couple of specific character choices and buffs. I'm not sure why you don't see it.
 
It's true. He does. He is pretty good at it, too. But admit it, Matt. Solomon did it with far more panache than Iftikar.
 
obcidian_bandit said:
Arkade said:
No one can realy tank fights, but it'ed be cool if they could.
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I tank. I'm a fighter, it's all I do. There are other fighters in my chapter that deal more damage then me at lower level, but I tank pretty well. It's a fighting style, with a couple of specific character choices and buffs. I'm not sure why you don't see it.
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My nonexistent $5 bet goes to 'Well, we usually end up having the casters in golems tank'.

I figure that's the safe bet.
 
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