Siege Weapons

Phabo

Phabo

Newbie
Author's Note: I wasn't sure where to start this conversation (here or rules)

So I'm relatively new to Alliance, but played other LARPs for about 6 years and I was recently thinking of making some siege weapons. My character thinks himself to be somewhat an engineer and wants to make something of it. Also up coming plot in the chapters I frequent make me want to make siege weapons as well.

Anyways moving along I have multiple plans for weapons that include ballistas, catapults, battering rams, etc.
but I wanted to know what others thought. I guess the rules part was if there are national rules for it or if its a chapter by chapter thing.

How I see it there are two paths:
  1. Make functioning weapons that shoot javelins or balls of foam
  2. Make Phys Reps that then have rules attached to them
I think it would add a fun layer to the game, especially if there is a legitimate use for them.
 
This kind of thing is amazingly awesome if done right. There are no national rules for siege engines, so your best bet is to contact your local plot team and work hand in hand with them.

A national rule that may apply: Boulders from the weapon rules.
 
If you're thinking about the castle event at SoMN in October, there's typically a battering ram that comes out at least once.
 
HQ recently had a ballista prop and had Alex K. (AKA Vox) throwing packets if I am not mistaken.
 
In HQ plot has used siege weapons a handful of times, always under the control of the NPCs. I think it is safe to say that, given the balance of the rules, PCs should never have unlimited access to siege weapons (though a one-shot, controlled encounter may work occasionally).

As for how it was done at HQ, the times I saw it, either safety checked javelins were being chucked by a huge ballista (VERY carefully safety tested first) or safety checked boulders were being lobbed by a catapult (also VERY carefully safety tested first). I do believe OOG NPCs (standing next to siege weapon phys reps) just threw the javelins / boulders at least once in the past before some genius actually got the amazingly cool machines to work.

-MS
 
NH has a seige weapon policy:

http://alliancelarp.com/forum/threads/alliance-deadlands-plot-effects.1283/

Siege Weapons- These are the rules for PC built siege weapons in the Deadlands chapter.

1) The physical rep for the weapon has to meet safety standards. Including being sturdy enough to survive use, minimizing pinch points, padding the throwing arm. All siege weapons are safety inspected on a case by case basis and every event. If at any point I deem them unsafe or unsuitable for use they will be pulled from the field. The rep must be at least 3ft by 3ft by 3ft and must actually be able to propel the boulder rep.

2) Base damage will be 4 Massive Mechanical, raised by 2 points for every rank of Craftsman Engineer held by the operator, up to a max of 80. Projectiles may be coated with vorpal coatings to increase damage but no other augmentations may be made. i.e. poisons, blade spells, auras etc. Damage will be taken by anyone the boulder touches until it comes to complete rest. No skills may be used via a siege weapon, ie slay, terminate, or eviscerate.

3) A PC made siege weapon will cost 20 gold to create, though the cost will be reduced by one gold for every rank of Craftsmen Engineer, with a minimum cost of 5 gold.

4) To operate the siege engine you must have at least one rank of Craftsmen Engineer, damage will be calculated by the rank of the current operator with the most ranks of Craftsman Engineer. Two people will be required to operate the siege weapon at any given time. To move the siege weapon, regardless of actual size of the rep, you need four people and may only move at walking speed. The weapon may only be fired every ten seconds regardless of the actual time it takes to load.

5) Ammunition will cost 5 Silver a piece and will be tagged and reusable. They will also be able to be the target of a shatter or destroy spell. Ammunition will need two people to lift, carry and load the weapon. The siege weapon itself will only be vulnerable to destroy spells and will count as strengthened for the purposes of being destroyed by magic. A siege weapon will not be able to be repaired, a new one must be bought at logistics if it is destroyed.
 
Dang Pantz... that's... that's pretty good.
 
I played around with a couple designs for siege engines for Oregon. The biggest limiter was range vs impact. I didn't want a siege weapon that only threw its projectile twenty feet or so.

  • The rail sling was built to throw javelins. The issue there was that the javelins either wouldn't fly very far, or they couldn't withstand the pressure of the launch cable.
  • The boulder launcher ran into the issue of the boulders being too heavy to safely launch an appreciable distance, or too light to actually go very far.
  • The packet slingshot had the issue of throwing the packets too hard. Even after 30 yards or so, they still packed a wallop stronger than a hard throw.[.list]
 
I stand corrected. Thanks Mike.
 
JP. Did you double up the pipe foam for the shaft of the Javs or use a solid pool noodle?
 
It may be an unsolvable engineering problem due to simple physics. The farther you want to throw something, the more force you need behind that throw. Not a problem for real world siege engines (you WANT them to break walls and kill people), but may mean that significant distance is impossible to do safely in an Alliance environment.

Now I want some mechanical engineers to take up this problem.

-MS
 
Mechanical Engineer reporting. I have a couple ideas, but they depend on the requirements.

What are the requirements?
  • Distance?
  • Momentum on impact?
  • Projectile size?
  • Mobility of the base?
  • Anachronistic-ness? (both of the base and projectile)
  • Construction? (i.e. does the base need to conform to all other weapon construction guidelines? Or does just the projectile need to be "safe"?)
  • Cost/budget constraints?
  • Ease of aiming? (i.e. easier to aim requires more force; otherwise the construct must add arc to add distance, but at the detriment of accuracy)
 
If you couldn't tell...Seth really wants to make this happen.
 
  • Range should be 60ft minimum. More is better, but capping at around 100-150ft isn't absurd (i.e. greater than a safely thrown weapon or packet {otherwise, just throw a thing}, but close enough for someone in the know to yell the damage/effect as appropriate and reasonably be heard)
  • The experienced impact should be no greater than an Alliance-legal weapon blow or packet throw (otherwise, why would it be illegal as a standard weapon blow/packet?)
  • Projectiles should generally conform to accepted standards of safety.
  • Mobility - don't care.
  • Anachronism - about an anachronistic as weapons and packets. I'm not concerned if the mechanical function of the engine isn't "legit", but the overall look should be.
  • Construction - Base doesn't need to, projectiles should probably conform to thrown weapon or packet standards. (Personally, I feel/felt that a fully-enclosed core should be allowed, which would have handled most of my issue, but then I felt it would be inconsistent. i.e. why can't I throw a javelin with a core if you can launch one off of a ballista?)
  • Cost/budget - I suppose that would depend on the
  • Aiming - whatever's clever. You'll need to account for accidental headshots.
 
I thought about aircannons - more money than I wanted to personally spend in testing, and I kept running into "any delivery system capable of lobbing the projectile far enough created too heavy of an impact". I'm not against it, but the impact balance was always a factor.

I generally think it should launch one round per 8-10 seconds at the slowest. That could scale, though. i.e. - a hwacha that launched ten projectiles per minute would be ahead of the curve, in my mind.


At one point, I worked out a very short core near the head of a javelin with some hooks to ensure less pressure was exerted on the shaft (snirk!), kind of like how the Nerf compound bow works, but ran into the issue of anything strong enough to be the launch component was probably harder than anyone would want flying through the air.
 
I have two ideas that may work as a "manual" pneumatic air cannon using a bike pump to create the air pressure. It may be a two-person mechanism to meet the reload speed, though, where one person pumps and the other loads. If the concept works we can move from there to improve firing speed (add an air cannister instead of a bike pump, etc.).
 
Out of curiosity, would it be possible to launch something with weird aerodynamics that would slow the projectile down to prevent it from hitting too hard? Or would that be, essentially, counterproductive?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top