[.11] South Michigan - Oct 5-8 - Thoughts and Musings
- Thread starter Alkalin3
- Start date
Mahir
Newbie
Overall, just about every change I think was a big positive. 2.0 is overall a more fun game, especially as a lower level character- collapsing the damage numbers helped me not feel useless swinging 4's, even with the two-hander next to me swinging 15's.
I liked the weapon strikes before I got to play them, but playing with them really solidified my opinion. They're great for players, but what really stood out to me was their use by NPCs. 'Weapon strike 30 normal' is a great line-breaker for NPCs to have that don't screw over players by throwing a million status effects at them, and without having a monster just constantly swinging massive. Swarm was a great effect too, and kept a cool prop monster from turning into a circle beat.
The new incants are going to be a learning curve for a while, but at least they all make sense and are consistent (even if I'm always going to hate 'with binding force I bind you')
I liked the weapon strikes before I got to play them, but playing with them really solidified my opinion. They're great for players, but what really stood out to me was their use by NPCs. 'Weapon strike 30 normal' is a great line-breaker for NPCs to have that don't screw over players by throwing a million status effects at them, and without having a monster just constantly swinging massive. Swarm was a great effect too, and kept a cool prop monster from turning into a circle beat.
The new incants are going to be a learning curve for a while, but at least they all make sense and are consistent (even if I'm always going to hate 'with binding force I bind you')
Banradi
Adept
I got to try two separate builds during my two playtests. One that was a 6 column earth caster with 500pts of Celestial Channeling, and another that was a duel school formalist. My overall goal of this was to look at the differences between spells & channeling pool, as well as some of the finer details with the schools. Here are a few of my thoughts in quick bullet points. I'd be happy to expand on them if someone has questions.
TL;DR I preferred my channeling build vastly more than I did having the spell utility.
- Duel-School Formalist doesn't seem that good. Although the cost hasn't changed between 1.3 and 2.0, you lose some of the benefit of being able to 'fast activate' magic items. Also with having a solution to everything that you come across, you end up using your spells that much faster (I haven't ever used that many spells both logistics periods in who knows how long)
- I think 'Slow' should be at 1st level. Right now it's competing with 'Pin', and I can't think of a situation in where Slow wins.
- I don't see much benefit of spells at 6th level. If Stun Limb moved to this level, I think it would be much more beneficial
- Lesser Earth Storm is crazy good. I don't think I've ever seen so many people actually spend resources to throw healing at undead in 1.3 vs in 2.0. I like this a lot.
- Some of the incants are pretty clunky "With binding force I bind you", "I call upon earth (why was 'the' removed?)", "I protect you with a"
- I never ended up using meditate, other than the new "Quicken Meditate" magic item. I'm already used to missed spells in 1.3, so I already sort of factor this in to my gameplay (and would rather spend that time that I could meditate something back doing something else). This is probably something that will require a culture shift.
- I loved the 'elemental' qualifier with channeling, and even don't mind not being able to meditate it back (see above), but I do think it could be expanded upon in some way (some sort of crafting ability for scrollmakers, being able to use your pool to cast a single spell at some sort of cost, more points per purchase, etc)
TL;DR I preferred my channeling build vastly more than I did having the spell utility.
Durnic
Knight
A number of owners were concerned with making sure that a lot of these incants had a similar syllable count. I, personally, do not feel that this is a good reason, but you asked and I answered.
Banradi
Adept
Thanks @Durnic!
Although there are some things like that that aren't great, I vastly prefer the 2.0 ruleset to 1.3. Since there are so many new skills and abilities for people to spend their buil--experience on, you see a lower overall damage output by players (and therefore NPC body bloat, which is super noticeable).
It seems like the game we should have been playing all along.
Although there are some things like that that aren't great, I vastly prefer the 2.0 ruleset to 1.3. Since there are so many new skills and abilities for people to spend their buil--experience on, you see a lower overall damage output by players (and therefore NPC body bloat, which is super noticeable).
It seems like the game we should have been playing all along.
Naomi
Artisan
Sorry for being late with this. I'm really liking 2.0!
- I love that the incants now include the numeric. It's great for newer players and well probably everyone. I concur with Ian though about a lot of the incants being clunky. I mean "with binding force I bind you is just terrible'. I don't think you need to have syllabic similarities, I'd rather say 'the' for 'I call upon THE earth' than stumble over the lack of 'the'. I do understand the reasoning behind it though. I just don't think it's all that necessary. 'With Necromancy' doesn't exactly roll off the tongue either.
- For Adepts- Love LOVE LOVE united blow. It makes adept a really cool option now. At least for me. Enhanced strike was good. I think it's better for Celestial Adepts (which is good. Celestial needs a boost).
- Last playtest I played a Rogue. This one I played an Adept. In both instances, Reposting strike is amazing. It's too cheap for how good it is probably (as much as I don't want to say that from a personal level).
- Wither- I think this is a really cool concept. It's also (from what I can see) hard to execute. A few people had a hard time with their muscle memory blocking and not realizing that they were taking damage with wither. While I'm sure this is a learning curve thing, it's understandably hard for some to wrap their heads around it. I've taken to specifically holding my weapons in a different position, to remind myself which wither I am. I heard a couple of people who casted the spell/carrier, saying they couldn't tell which people chose. Perhaps we impliment a 'chosen' call? So if I pick offensive when withered, I must announce it when I become so?
Naomi
Artisan
We're back.
- Traps- I don't think the trigger for area traps should always have to be in the game room. There should be a way to remote detonate trigger it (Example) pulling fishing line to set a trap off from another room/outside). Even if this is a ability only Master Trappers can accomplish, I think it should be an available option. Traps have improved since 1.3 but I saw some PC's use them this weekend and they seemed quite underwhelmed with how the rules played out.
- I love the idea of scroll and globe traps. Very cool. The fact that Legerdemain has been included in Trap making makes sense.
- I think there should be a possibility to have a weapon move for a weapon trap (obviously not one made with a core,). Say for example- you rig a net with foam blocks to fall and you can prove to the marshal/plot ahead of time, that this is a safe mechanism, it would be a really cool effect to have. I understand the safety around this, I'm just spit balling on this one for the sake of someone getting creative.
- Monster Slayer-I think possibly Monster Slayer should be removed from the game. Don't get me wrong. I had one, it felt awesome in 1.3. I think battles work better without them and allow those who have natural abilities (ie earth casters in the case of undead slayer) to shine a bit more. We fought undead this past weekend and no one either took/used their slayers. I think it made the battle more interesting without it.
- One thing I would like to note. I didn't see a lot of people playing straight fighters. I'm not sure if fighter doesn't seem worth it anymore or if people were trying out new things. This might be something to look at.
- I felt way more effective as an adept in almost every way than I did a rogue.
- I think crafting, high magic and formals/magic items need to have more options (more so on the crafting side and ESPECIALLY Blacksmith.) but I realize this is a playtest and these things take time.
- Quicken Meditate is my favourite new magic item. Sorcerers Triage is a cool as well.
- Enhanced quiver is really cool. It would be nice to have an alchemical/potion vial or pouch like that. Something along the lines of, this vial can hold up to 5-10 globes in it) kind of thing
- I love meditate as an idea. I think Enhanced Meditate should either go from 3 rankings to 2 (1 rank of enhanced brings you to 5 minutes/2 ranks brings you to 1 minutes) or that is becomes a bit cheaper to buy. I don't think it's worth 3 build per rank.
- Lesser Earth storm made some people really happy this weekend. This was a great move. It seems like it made lower level casters have their 'cool' moment.
Seabass
Scholar
Providing feedback from the plot perspective. To sum up these musings: 2.0 Breathes new life into Alliance LARP.
Undead - Wow do I love playing an undead now. Undead are potentially powerful but have a big gaping, obvious, and easily exploitable weakness. Running around with over 100+ armor with only like 30 body made me tense and excited. Just as often as I had some knockdown dragout fight I would get just instantly wrecked right out of combat. A few times I am pretty sure it was someone just channeling earth into me. I'm very pleased with the healing vs undead mechanic now. If the healing effect is going to be limited having it be this effective is really satisfying.
Meditate - While I can't speak to my own experience I kept waiting for our players to stop the large amount of mod fights we did this event because they were tapped. We really pushed them this weekend looking for the bottom of the barrel of skill. Even when it seemed like they were getting close to that the pace didn't stop. I have a strong feeling that meditate is responsible for it. Any players chime in on that one?
Slay and Instant skills - now that everything is at instant speed with martial and stealth skills this game feels more fluid to me. The sudden takeouts were savage and exciting. A lot of muscle memory is fighting back with the pacing of using a slay against someone for me. Normally I would pause for the resolution, now I just try to make it part of the rhythm and attempt to deal with the response (which often would kill me). In any case combat feels more fluid now, more natural, and the playing field is leveled some for those with perhaps less OOG martial skill to both feel like the have an impact on combat and actually do so as well.
Body Blows/Strikes - The great equalizer. With monster cards having a great deal more required aura or damage type to fully effect these are amazing for getting the job done when you need it. Meaning having these body type skill strikes ready to go when the blade spell runs out makes them so much more valuable than simply doing a great deal of damage. I feel it has made rogue and adept damage have a precision-strike-in-clutch-moments rather than just be over whelming damage from behind. The fact that body always works makes these classes far more appealing again.
Monster Abilities - Prior to the game being 2.0 I never would have put out a <effect> to hit card. I didn't feel they were fun for all players. Now with 2.0 having monsters minimized, reduced, or to-hit feels like a real challenge and not just some stupidly powerful ability. A number of cards that had these abilities were not so limited to just one swingable effect. Mostly it would be reduction from normal, maybe silver. On very the high end it would be healing, magic, or body to hit. With fights not totally untenable without the right resources, but dramatically changed by the right specific abilities/resources, was very satisfying to see. I think that special monsters having abilities that require a level of resource or resource preparation is going to really enhance those fights and create a better sense of accomplishment when killing them. Preparation for those fights makes the difference of a very long drag out fight, or totally routing them quickly.
Swarm: I like Swarm and I have a small suggestion. I suggest detailed wording to clarify this as a defense only trigger when the players advance on the monster and not the reverse. I feel the NPC should have to call "Swarm!" once (omitting the number of the skill) before doing their abilities. They would then again say it if the players back away and reengage with the required swarm ability number. This simply provides a better method of communication of mechanics to the players and prevents any abuse of a potentially very powerful skill. With all that said I do like the ability and I’m looking forward to playing with it further. It added a whole new dynamic to powerful creatures and the field tactics players have to use on them.
Production: I feel we are on the right track with production changes. I say lets keep going with new ideas and practical applications.
As a plot guy I winced several times throwing monster cards at the players these last two play tests that I thought would be just too crazy. Yet they proved me wrong over and over. Either neutralizing the threat well enough with the new variety of skill or going into a knock down drag out fight that required a great deal of adjustments on both our parts from what we normally expected. It gave the game a real sense of different monsters and challenges. It did not feel solely like the player numbers vs the monster numbers so that more treasure could be found to simply enhance the most powerful numbers in the game as it has of late in 1.3. To me while the admittedly important amount of skills on the field played an important factor the battle felt more like a living breathing thing to interact with again.
I'm really enjoying 2.0 and I never want to go back.
Undead - Wow do I love playing an undead now. Undead are potentially powerful but have a big gaping, obvious, and easily exploitable weakness. Running around with over 100+ armor with only like 30 body made me tense and excited. Just as often as I had some knockdown dragout fight I would get just instantly wrecked right out of combat. A few times I am pretty sure it was someone just channeling earth into me. I'm very pleased with the healing vs undead mechanic now. If the healing effect is going to be limited having it be this effective is really satisfying.
Meditate - While I can't speak to my own experience I kept waiting for our players to stop the large amount of mod fights we did this event because they were tapped. We really pushed them this weekend looking for the bottom of the barrel of skill. Even when it seemed like they were getting close to that the pace didn't stop. I have a strong feeling that meditate is responsible for it. Any players chime in on that one?
Slay and Instant skills - now that everything is at instant speed with martial and stealth skills this game feels more fluid to me. The sudden takeouts were savage and exciting. A lot of muscle memory is fighting back with the pacing of using a slay against someone for me. Normally I would pause for the resolution, now I just try to make it part of the rhythm and attempt to deal with the response (which often would kill me). In any case combat feels more fluid now, more natural, and the playing field is leveled some for those with perhaps less OOG martial skill to both feel like the have an impact on combat and actually do so as well.
Body Blows/Strikes - The great equalizer. With monster cards having a great deal more required aura or damage type to fully effect these are amazing for getting the job done when you need it. Meaning having these body type skill strikes ready to go when the blade spell runs out makes them so much more valuable than simply doing a great deal of damage. I feel it has made rogue and adept damage have a precision-strike-in-clutch-moments rather than just be over whelming damage from behind. The fact that body always works makes these classes far more appealing again.
Monster Abilities - Prior to the game being 2.0 I never would have put out a <effect> to hit card. I didn't feel they were fun for all players. Now with 2.0 having monsters minimized, reduced, or to-hit feels like a real challenge and not just some stupidly powerful ability. A number of cards that had these abilities were not so limited to just one swingable effect. Mostly it would be reduction from normal, maybe silver. On very the high end it would be healing, magic, or body to hit. With fights not totally untenable without the right resources, but dramatically changed by the right specific abilities/resources, was very satisfying to see. I think that special monsters having abilities that require a level of resource or resource preparation is going to really enhance those fights and create a better sense of accomplishment when killing them. Preparation for those fights makes the difference of a very long drag out fight, or totally routing them quickly.
Swarm: I like Swarm and I have a small suggestion. I suggest detailed wording to clarify this as a defense only trigger when the players advance on the monster and not the reverse. I feel the NPC should have to call "Swarm!" once (omitting the number of the skill) before doing their abilities. They would then again say it if the players back away and reengage with the required swarm ability number. This simply provides a better method of communication of mechanics to the players and prevents any abuse of a potentially very powerful skill. With all that said I do like the ability and I’m looking forward to playing with it further. It added a whole new dynamic to powerful creatures and the field tactics players have to use on them.
Production: I feel we are on the right track with production changes. I say lets keep going with new ideas and practical applications.
As a plot guy I winced several times throwing monster cards at the players these last two play tests that I thought would be just too crazy. Yet they proved me wrong over and over. Either neutralizing the threat well enough with the new variety of skill or going into a knock down drag out fight that required a great deal of adjustments on both our parts from what we normally expected. It gave the game a real sense of different monsters and challenges. It did not feel solely like the player numbers vs the monster numbers so that more treasure could be found to simply enhance the most powerful numbers in the game as it has of late in 1.3. To me while the admittedly important amount of skills on the field played an important factor the battle felt more like a living breathing thing to interact with again.
I'm really enjoying 2.0 and I never want to go back.
Seabass
Scholar
You just did I think.
Ardos
Artisan
Ok it's taking me forever to compile my thoughts, but Seabass really calls out a lot of my high points so I'm going to expand on some of that stuff from a player perspective.
First, character build: I've played two variatons on a "tank" style spellsword, the first was a master blacksmith, the second leaned more into spells and per day fighter skills. Both builds did not bother with any profs, personal choice that is definitely doable in 2.0. Intercept is great with bigger armor totals, combined with mettle and resolute if you want to play the tactical tank boy oh boy should you be excited for 2.0.
Undead: boy oh boy this is definitely the biggest difference of the game and it is going to be one of the biggest shifts in player combat styles. Shatters are strong, pure damage seems weak, and high level undead having dispels makes spellswords MUCH more important than I thought on paper. "Heroic battles" is really the best way to describe it. You either do everything or nothing, and that's not a bad thing but should be noted that I burned through my stock of production real quick with spellstored celestial and potion cache spear, and would not be feasible on that scale continuously. The plot guys made it clear though that it was supposed to push us to the edge of our skills.
Meditate: that is absolutely what happened, we had a slog of a town fight, but with a solid amount of skills and spells coming back that we thought we could do 1 more mod, albeit not enough left to do THAT mod and we all chugged through production.
Slays and instant skills: I landed fighter skills. That's really enough said about it. Plus there's enough extra defenses against it that it didn't seem overpowered.
Strikes: sure I got beaten to death by a big angry punch monster, but it felt more like I could do something than the old massive rules, and strikes on our side helped deal with shields.
Monster abilities: I loved the variety of types, and they all felt like the thing they we're more so than "rogue monster, fighter monster, caster monster" sure some of them still feel that way but having that style of monster abilities really solidified what they do. Side note, as a player engulfing a bear, this was the best and funniest thing I've had happen in a long time and was absolutely worth it. The bad thing, please please please change the name of fae curse. I get why it's called that but not being able to use my resist curse on the curse "because" feels bad. Mechanically I get why, but in practice it feels off on both sides, npc and pc.
Swarm: seeing stuff swarm is odd. I'm not sure how I feel about it now because it encourages a "solo" fighting style a bit too much for my taste. The game is about working together and punishing players for working together that often feels bad. Having been on the plot side though, having something to back off the players is absolutely needed, so maybe just have it be less frequent? I don't have a good answer on this yet, I'll add more thoughts after we run our one day from being on the other side of the swarm.
Production: it's a huge step in the right direction. Seeing players happy with trap making is great, seeing more productionists in general is great, currently there is still not enough to do as a blacksmith and you definitely feel it. Strengthening shields is supposed to be your new high end production for stalwart shield, but it's so prohibitively expensive that by the time I asked our blacksmith he just said no. When I was a master blacksmith I had too much production for anything besides arrows. Great steps forward overall, can still make an impact here though.
High magic: right now I just don't think there's enough reason to invest in celestial high magic, they really could use an offensive option, without burst it is noticably bland aside from storm augment and that's not worth more than a purchase or 2. I don't want a high level production caster to feel like they shot themselves in the foot to cast rituals, or they just won't take it.
Monster slayer is still the worst thing mechanically. I know we had players with them, and they just decided not to use them and it felt great. You can't balance undead fights if every adventurer has an undead slayer and boy would they.
After seeing a players "siege device" I really want weapon traps to be moveable after being set. Even if this means it "breaks" after using, watching a trap maker arm a "production slay" would be cool. That said I'm not sure the balance on this so hey, any other ideas?
Wither: I really enjoyed it, but it has a learning curve on both sides of play. Players not knowing they should be dead, and NPCs getting confused after pumping everything into my shield when I offensive wither and just block. Pretty sure this will go away as people learn the rules better.
Spells: specifically the shield spell was great to use against swarms of low damage bad carrier monsters, I want to use it at more than second level because pumping 3 into someone works but could be better. Throwing evocation feels great when you only poke for 2s, but watching an adept hit them for double body damage really makes you feel neglected landing a pitiful 10 flame. There isn't a good reason to memorize the evocation unless you have something that spends it right now.
Final thoughts: the long story short, I would be happy to jump into 2.0 right now. Sure, it has oddities, but less than 1.3 does, and it feels more user friendly all around. I'm sure I'm forgetting things about the weekend but work has kinda taken all my thoughts this week, if you have specific questions I'll try to answer them.
First, character build: I've played two variatons on a "tank" style spellsword, the first was a master blacksmith, the second leaned more into spells and per day fighter skills. Both builds did not bother with any profs, personal choice that is definitely doable in 2.0. Intercept is great with bigger armor totals, combined with mettle and resolute if you want to play the tactical tank boy oh boy should you be excited for 2.0.
Undead: boy oh boy this is definitely the biggest difference of the game and it is going to be one of the biggest shifts in player combat styles. Shatters are strong, pure damage seems weak, and high level undead having dispels makes spellswords MUCH more important than I thought on paper. "Heroic battles" is really the best way to describe it. You either do everything or nothing, and that's not a bad thing but should be noted that I burned through my stock of production real quick with spellstored celestial and potion cache spear, and would not be feasible on that scale continuously. The plot guys made it clear though that it was supposed to push us to the edge of our skills.
Meditate: that is absolutely what happened, we had a slog of a town fight, but with a solid amount of skills and spells coming back that we thought we could do 1 more mod, albeit not enough left to do THAT mod and we all chugged through production.
Slays and instant skills: I landed fighter skills. That's really enough said about it. Plus there's enough extra defenses against it that it didn't seem overpowered.
Strikes: sure I got beaten to death by a big angry punch monster, but it felt more like I could do something than the old massive rules, and strikes on our side helped deal with shields.
Monster abilities: I loved the variety of types, and they all felt like the thing they we're more so than "rogue monster, fighter monster, caster monster" sure some of them still feel that way but having that style of monster abilities really solidified what they do. Side note, as a player engulfing a bear, this was the best and funniest thing I've had happen in a long time and was absolutely worth it. The bad thing, please please please change the name of fae curse. I get why it's called that but not being able to use my resist curse on the curse "because" feels bad. Mechanically I get why, but in practice it feels off on both sides, npc and pc.
Swarm: seeing stuff swarm is odd. I'm not sure how I feel about it now because it encourages a "solo" fighting style a bit too much for my taste. The game is about working together and punishing players for working together that often feels bad. Having been on the plot side though, having something to back off the players is absolutely needed, so maybe just have it be less frequent? I don't have a good answer on this yet, I'll add more thoughts after we run our one day from being on the other side of the swarm.
Production: it's a huge step in the right direction. Seeing players happy with trap making is great, seeing more productionists in general is great, currently there is still not enough to do as a blacksmith and you definitely feel it. Strengthening shields is supposed to be your new high end production for stalwart shield, but it's so prohibitively expensive that by the time I asked our blacksmith he just said no. When I was a master blacksmith I had too much production for anything besides arrows. Great steps forward overall, can still make an impact here though.
High magic: right now I just don't think there's enough reason to invest in celestial high magic, they really could use an offensive option, without burst it is noticably bland aside from storm augment and that's not worth more than a purchase or 2. I don't want a high level production caster to feel like they shot themselves in the foot to cast rituals, or they just won't take it.
Monster slayer is still the worst thing mechanically. I know we had players with them, and they just decided not to use them and it felt great. You can't balance undead fights if every adventurer has an undead slayer and boy would they.
After seeing a players "siege device" I really want weapon traps to be moveable after being set. Even if this means it "breaks" after using, watching a trap maker arm a "production slay" would be cool. That said I'm not sure the balance on this so hey, any other ideas?
Wither: I really enjoyed it, but it has a learning curve on both sides of play. Players not knowing they should be dead, and NPCs getting confused after pumping everything into my shield when I offensive wither and just block. Pretty sure this will go away as people learn the rules better.
Spells: specifically the shield spell was great to use against swarms of low damage bad carrier monsters, I want to use it at more than second level because pumping 3 into someone works but could be better. Throwing evocation feels great when you only poke for 2s, but watching an adept hit them for double body damage really makes you feel neglected landing a pitiful 10 flame. There isn't a good reason to memorize the evocation unless you have something that spends it right now.
Final thoughts: the long story short, I would be happy to jump into 2.0 right now. Sure, it has oddities, but less than 1.3 does, and it feels more user friendly all around. I'm sure I'm forgetting things about the weekend but work has kinda taken all my thoughts this week, if you have specific questions I'll try to answer them.
Newer player feedback. My first event was played under 1.3, and now I have played a game under 2.0. So feedback is provided after 1 game under each system but also with 20+ years of larp experience under my belt.
I certainly preferred 2.0 over 1.3. Here are some of the reasons.
1. Constant damage was lower, which made it easier for newer players to feel like a useful part of the game.
2. Potion crafting seemed useful. Through stockpiles of healing potions additional adventures were possible. Although production as a whole still seems lackluster compared to just having skills on your sheet.
3. Blacksmithing needs some love. Its either 60+xp so you can do fast refits, which while neat is really only useful on folks with piles of armor or its a total waste of xp. How about some expendable items for smithing and some reasonable coin costs on the few worthwhile things they can do? 5 gold for a strengthening made nobody wanted them even the guy with the magic shield that let them do extra stuff, and that wasnt even counting the coin cost for the PP. Silvering at 1 silver per arrow, your basically saying dont bother silvering arrows. I can coat a greatsword for 15 silver pieces but I cant even do one quiver of arrows with the same amount of silver. Most folks get a weapon, render it, and call it a day. Meaning smiths rarely have anyone willing to buy what they can make. Maybe some 1-shot fast refit armor kits, 1-shot slay or eviscerate weapon enhancers, or making some of the ritual effects for weapons into high end smithing items? I am also not aware of any magic items for crafters aside from the new traveling workshop. I think it would also be cool if instead of dropping production on adventures, which leads to crafters being even less useful, instead monsters dropped "supplies" or something which could be turned into production items by crafters. Example: Instead of dropping 5 cure light wounds potions, maybe drop 5 supply tags. Each tag is good for 1 level of production (covers the coin cost and the PP cost). Now crafting is needed to utilize treasure, and maybe the PC's dont want 5 cure light wounds potions, maybe they want a tier 5 scroll instead.
4. I like the higher armor values and that its easier to get into the armor game and have an ok suit. I dont like that it seems as if the game is trying to make all armor is just armor....sort of. Either call all armor, armor or dont. Having arcane work differently then the rest of armor is really frustrating. If the goal is to see more folks wearing armor, then have arcane stack just like other armor types. Then if I want to play a tanky warrior I can put on a 30 suit of arcane buy some wear extra armor skill and toss on a chain shirt, some bracers, etc etc and reach my 60 suit. I like that armor has better options now but it feels kinda like the door is cracked and we are peaking in vs opening the door of possibility.
5. I really dislike the removal of "The" from earth healing incants. For a game that is supposed to be "no religion" everytime I hear healing it sounds like a prayer to me. Sure its one extra syllable but "By Earth I do something" Vs "By The earth I do something". I know what THE earth is, its the stuff under my feet. By earth...feels borderline like deification. "By Thor I smite thee" type of thing.
6. Monster slayer is a horrible mechanic in 1.3 and remains a horrible mechanic in 2.0. It either needs to have the monster type included in whatever effect it deals so the NPC can respond or it needs to just go away. Maybe remove the mechanic and do something like a 1-shot crafted item that does a "<monster type> slay". In another game I play we have a similiar mechanic but call it race reaving. So to use it would be something like "Undead reaving" and "reaving" has a set effect. So if you hit an undead with an undead reaving effect the NPC knows that if they are undead X happens. New calls are not even needed in this case. "50 undead reaving slay" or "50 Elf slayer" would work equally. Could be a cool sharpening stone for smiths, or thrown globe for alchemy. Would really make those character types shine during encounters with those monster types. Slightly more complex but you could take the various types of slayers, divide them in half and give half to alchemy, half to smithing.
7. Celestial casters seemed lacking. I didnt play one so I am not sure how to really give examples but I cant think of a single time where I saw a celestial caster do something that stood out in my mind. This is a bit disappointing to me. The whole game seemed to be about swinging stick and getting heals. I wanted to see wizards do cool and impressive things. Warriors doing 10-15 all day while rogues did 5's & 15's ended up being better damage then celestial casters from what I saw. From what I could tell if you wanted to throw packets you were better off being an archer then a wizard.
In conclusion, I like 2.0. Most of the issues I have listed above seem to be more Alliance specific then 2.0 specific so maybe I got off topic a bit. Celestial casters and artisans still seem like the red headed step children that lurk in the shadow of those who swing sticks and do healing. Artisan seemed to be less of that compared to 1.3 but still very much relegated to the "Why bother playing this class" position. Celestial from what I can see, seems to be unchanged as the "I should be a cool wizard who does impressive stuff but really doesnt".
Evan/Rock
I certainly preferred 2.0 over 1.3. Here are some of the reasons.
1. Constant damage was lower, which made it easier for newer players to feel like a useful part of the game.
2. Potion crafting seemed useful. Through stockpiles of healing potions additional adventures were possible. Although production as a whole still seems lackluster compared to just having skills on your sheet.
3. Blacksmithing needs some love. Its either 60+xp so you can do fast refits, which while neat is really only useful on folks with piles of armor or its a total waste of xp. How about some expendable items for smithing and some reasonable coin costs on the few worthwhile things they can do? 5 gold for a strengthening made nobody wanted them even the guy with the magic shield that let them do extra stuff, and that wasnt even counting the coin cost for the PP. Silvering at 1 silver per arrow, your basically saying dont bother silvering arrows. I can coat a greatsword for 15 silver pieces but I cant even do one quiver of arrows with the same amount of silver. Most folks get a weapon, render it, and call it a day. Meaning smiths rarely have anyone willing to buy what they can make. Maybe some 1-shot fast refit armor kits, 1-shot slay or eviscerate weapon enhancers, or making some of the ritual effects for weapons into high end smithing items? I am also not aware of any magic items for crafters aside from the new traveling workshop. I think it would also be cool if instead of dropping production on adventures, which leads to crafters being even less useful, instead monsters dropped "supplies" or something which could be turned into production items by crafters. Example: Instead of dropping 5 cure light wounds potions, maybe drop 5 supply tags. Each tag is good for 1 level of production (covers the coin cost and the PP cost). Now crafting is needed to utilize treasure, and maybe the PC's dont want 5 cure light wounds potions, maybe they want a tier 5 scroll instead.
4. I like the higher armor values and that its easier to get into the armor game and have an ok suit. I dont like that it seems as if the game is trying to make all armor is just armor....sort of. Either call all armor, armor or dont. Having arcane work differently then the rest of armor is really frustrating. If the goal is to see more folks wearing armor, then have arcane stack just like other armor types. Then if I want to play a tanky warrior I can put on a 30 suit of arcane buy some wear extra armor skill and toss on a chain shirt, some bracers, etc etc and reach my 60 suit. I like that armor has better options now but it feels kinda like the door is cracked and we are peaking in vs opening the door of possibility.
5. I really dislike the removal of "The" from earth healing incants. For a game that is supposed to be "no religion" everytime I hear healing it sounds like a prayer to me. Sure its one extra syllable but "By Earth I do something" Vs "By The earth I do something". I know what THE earth is, its the stuff under my feet. By earth...feels borderline like deification. "By Thor I smite thee" type of thing.
6. Monster slayer is a horrible mechanic in 1.3 and remains a horrible mechanic in 2.0. It either needs to have the monster type included in whatever effect it deals so the NPC can respond or it needs to just go away. Maybe remove the mechanic and do something like a 1-shot crafted item that does a "<monster type> slay". In another game I play we have a similiar mechanic but call it race reaving. So to use it would be something like "Undead reaving" and "reaving" has a set effect. So if you hit an undead with an undead reaving effect the NPC knows that if they are undead X happens. New calls are not even needed in this case. "50 undead reaving slay" or "50 Elf slayer" would work equally. Could be a cool sharpening stone for smiths, or thrown globe for alchemy. Would really make those character types shine during encounters with those monster types. Slightly more complex but you could take the various types of slayers, divide them in half and give half to alchemy, half to smithing.
7. Celestial casters seemed lacking. I didnt play one so I am not sure how to really give examples but I cant think of a single time where I saw a celestial caster do something that stood out in my mind. This is a bit disappointing to me. The whole game seemed to be about swinging stick and getting heals. I wanted to see wizards do cool and impressive things. Warriors doing 10-15 all day while rogues did 5's & 15's ended up being better damage then celestial casters from what I saw. From what I could tell if you wanted to throw packets you were better off being an archer then a wizard.
In conclusion, I like 2.0. Most of the issues I have listed above seem to be more Alliance specific then 2.0 specific so maybe I got off topic a bit. Celestial casters and artisans still seem like the red headed step children that lurk in the shadow of those who swing sticks and do healing. Artisan seemed to be less of that compared to 1.3 but still very much relegated to the "Why bother playing this class" position. Celestial from what I can see, seems to be unchanged as the "I should be a cool wizard who does impressive stuff but really doesnt".
Evan/Rock