Thoughts on Scout Archers

[mikestrauss]

I've always thought the Scout class was ideal for archers, though I acknowledged that Fighters had a pure edge in damage. One of the things I really like about these rules is that the Fighter edge has basically disappeared for archers.

To show this, let me pull out a few examples.

First, the archer that deals 10 damage with a bow:

For a fighter, that requires 5 profs. For a scout that requires 3 profs and 3 backstabs. Under the old rules, the fighter spent 75 build and the scout spent 108 build. That is a 33 build difference. Under the playtest rules, the fighter spends 105 build and the scout spends 126 build, for a 21 build difference.

Increasing levels, now consider the 4 prof / 4 backstab scout that is pretty standard because it allows for 2 parries, 2 dodges, 2 slays, 2 assassinates, a terminate, and an eviscerate. While that standard is probably going away, it is easy to use for comparison. This archer deals 13 damage. The fighter version requires 7 profs.

Under current rules, the fighter costs 105 build and the scout costs 144 build., for a 39 point difference (an increase in build difference from the 10 damage fighter). Under playtest rules, the fighter costs 168 build and the scout costs 180 build, for a 12 point difference.

Finally, lets push out once again to an archer that deals 19 damage.

Under current rules, the fighter costs 165 build and the scout costs 234 build, for a 69 point difference (WOW). Under playtest rules, the fighter costs 330 build and the scout costs 342 build, for the same 12 point difference (with two slightly different, but cost equivalent ways to do this).

Oddly, depending on build choices, the scout can actually jump ahead (hitting 21 damage for a nearly identical build total as what it would take the fighter to reach 20) for the next purchase, but slowly the scout will fall behind until a near parity point is reached with a roughly 30 - 50 build difference. But that is almost meaningless because you are talking about extremely high level characters adding incremental bonuses at this point.

The main point is that scouts and fighters are much closer in build spent when making archers with similar damage outputs than they were in the previous edition. And I think that is amazingly appropriate for my expectations for what a scout can do.

If nothing else happens with the playtest rules, the rule for scaling prof / backstab costs, which I was initially wary of, really seems to play towards at least one of my expectations in terms of world building.

-MS

 

[Vryan]

I think the "end game" for an archer under the new rules will be having a number of profs that make it so they can throw 10's (4 profs with a heavy crossbow or 5 profs with a longbow), then a stack of crit/back attacks to fuel magic items and for burst damage when they need it. Since, as far as I understand it, critical attacks don't benefit from the 1.5x damage the way that weapon profs do, there is no difference between burning a critical attack and burning a back attack for an archer; both will add 1 damage. That means it doesn't matter if you have a stack of critical attacks or a stack of back attacks; both function basically the same. However, having a stack of back attacks will be arguably more useful because it allows you to purchase rogue defensives, namely evades and dodges. These are great skills to have as an archer because, as long they're doing their job correctly, they generally won't be getting hit by many weapons, only spells and alchemy (and the occasional counter-archer). Therefore, parry (the primary fighter defensive) just won't see very much use, or none at all if they're using a crossbow. The one downside of a scout vs. a fighter in this case is that scouts will have less body. However, as an archer, you don't need body as much as a melee fighter will, so that matters way less.

Because of these reasons, I think the best archer build will be 5 profs (or 4 with a heavy crossbow) in order to throw 10's all day, maybe a few parries, a huge stack of back attacks for a couple fights per day of throwing 20's (or 30's with vorpal arrows), and as many evades and dodges as they can get their hands on. Maybe throw in some slays and eviscerates if they want big damage. When I have more time I'll play with the numbers and actually try different build options, but right now this kind of scout seems like the best option archers have.