Thoughts on Sept. Event

jwconvery

jwconvery

Spellsword
Some quick thoughts from Sept. My opinion is only my own. Voice yours.

GJ: You made that whole Saturday night encounter. Your roleplay was fantastic, creative, constant and scary as hell. Great way to lead by example.

Rota-Kiwan: I don't like the site. If we had bigger events, and made more use of the grounds surrounding maybe I would feel different. It just felt extremely small. Everything felt in the same spot. More cabins would help, but I know that is more $$. If it's a cost saving thing over Chelsea, that's fine I understand. I just wanted to publicly say it was not my favorite campsite.

Plot team: I dunno. It was such a drastic event stylistically it was tough. In retrospect, I get you wanted to go 'old school' but I was just kinda figuring out the change you made when you took over in March, with PC pro-activity. Then we come to the borderlands and it's circle up in the tavern for the saturday night stool-pushing. It was a well run, "cirlce up in the tavern" event but it was frustrating to keep switching the chapter's 'feel'. Having to fight for a place to sleep was cool, not knowing about it until everyone had unpacked and gotten ready to play was not. I think it was a 5 star event, that gets a down-grade in my mind to 3-stars simply for it being from left field stylistically. Call me a wuss or whatever, but that drastic style change really frustrated me. The sunday mobs, granted I wasn't playing, felt like something to keep people from cleaning up.

NPC's thank you so much for making the mods and things go smoothly. I had a lot of fun on the vine-mod.

I had some great moments roleplaying with people, but I've already thanked them.

Looking forward to Oct.
-Joe

*EDIT: I could get used to this style of play again. I don't care that it was a more hardcore event, I am more concerned with not being able to tell new players that I am trying to recruit, what to expect from a style of play standpoint.

*EDIT 2: Although having different styles at different camps, would be kinda cool. I guess it was just the shock of the change, and not the actual style. Ok, now I am rambling.
 
The event as a whole seemed a bit haphazard. Using older plot that only a handful of people initiated made those people the only ones who had a vested interest within that plot, and only three of them were present. On top of that it seemed as those who did have a vested interest were "pardoned" while those who were not rode the pain train to the ground. Whether that is due to plot implications or not I don't know, I just know that is how it was portrayed in my line of sight. The plot that was going on seemed ill informed, and that could have been from people hoarding information (or the artisan not caring). Mods seemed stated well, but I do agree with Joe that they were constantly in the same place. I used to love this campground, but that was when there was enough people to stock four cabins and NPC camp, but that doesn't have much to do with the game and how its ran in my opinion.

All of that being said I had an absolute blast Saturday night while having my tail between my legs. I don't mind having to run, and honestly that is how you come upon some of the best stories a LARP can provide, cause each person ran a different way. It has been a long time since I can remember having to take off multiple layers of costuming to better hide in the dark of night, much less having to better attach things to myself so they wouldn't WHAP me in the face while running from GJ's prepubescent joker-esk cackle....

Thanks for a memorable night, and thanks for all the hard work.

Tank
 
Here are my thoughts about the game. These are my observations and thoughts about the game.

Bad - The Cliquishness of the chapter hurts it. When it comes down to doing stuff, you get the feeling it’s one group against the other and hording of plot and resources makes new players not want to play. Examples include: when players are told “NO go way” or “NO you can’t come in the circle” when you are being attacked. Not letting the scavengers on any of the mods for scavangers. That Hording is the norm and you have to tell people “Hey I don’t want to take that from you I only trying to help” is the exception there is something wrong. (Yes I can hear people saying. My char. Is a dink and would do that. But when everyone comes off that way, why does anyone want to play in the chapter, gives us all bad reputations. I see it when I go to other chapters and they sigh when they know what chapter is my home. :tears: )

Good - NPCs were AWSOME !!! I laughed so hard with the kobolds in the cabin (Stevie Friday night). I didn’t mind getting rolled in the tavern and losing my stuff. It was cool (again STEVIE ). I knew that was going to go bad and just as I started to channel and get my circle ready you attacked us.. Undead Saturday night was SCARY. I heard a scream from outside and was OMG WTF !!! The ripping Don’ts heart out was a cool but sick touch. Don’t and Gnot both dying next to each other on the tavern floor was even cool. I can’t see those two characters going out any other way. NICE JOB NPCs !!!!

Bad - The site was too big for the number of players. I also have issues that that sight has WAY TO MUCH mold… OMG !!! I had to take way to much meds for it and almost had to use my inhaler.

Bad and Good - Aaron locking the keys in the car, I have to thank all who tried to help us solve that issue. We had to call a tow truck and have them came and unlock it for us. We learned something new.

Good - For those I was playing with (the Gypsies… GO LOWBIES !!) You all rocked LOVED THE RP WITH YA ALL. It was such a blast. Whoever it was that AHHHHed when Don’t died trying to drag the dead body of her husband out of the tavern. That made me want to cry laying there next to Gnot.

Overall there was more good than bad. I have been told by the new players that they had a ball BUT again the unfriendly Cliquishness of the chapter is turning them off. Aaron and I have had to tell them that not all chapters or games are like that. That it was a rough game and that most other chapters are more helpful. They have agreed to come back. We also have others who are looking at coming too. So we can hope we can increase the number of members/players to the chapter.

Dawn
 
Hey all, I was only on site from 11:20 a.m. Sat through 11:00 p.m. Sat, but here's my feedback for that period.

Pace. My perception was that this event's pace was slower than last event. I think it had to do with the fact that the site was so spread out, so there was a lot of time spent walking to NPC camp or the area for the mod or wherever else. We also ended up waiting outside of monster camp talking out of game for long periods, which isn't ideal. Another reason the pace was slower, as far as i could tell, is that there was no jobs board or contracts. That hurt the ability of rambunctious PCs (like myself) to just bang from one thing to the next. We would have been happy to include lowbies or out-of-towners in that stuff, if there was something on the table to do where we would control who went and when. But this event, as compared to last, I was more being told what I could do and when, than making those decisions for myself.

Style. Having the roving bands of death-dealing biata was scary, and we had to be very careful walking around alone. This was a dose of old school that some people probably loved. On some level, I liked it too. It could be that I am getting older and lazier, but if I had to pick, I'd probably opt for last event's style over this one. That way, if I just want to chill and roleplay, I can do that. If I want to beat stuff up, I can do that too. Neither thing is going to be forced on me--usually--if I don't want it to be.

Treasure. I am not opposed to end-of-the-mod treasure. It has a tendency to make things go out more evenly. But after the salt elemental mod, in particular, it just seemed so artificial. That mod was super easy (my character is convinced we missed something), but regardless, there was what seemed like the same amount of treasure to split up afterwards. Something about it just didn't seem right. To be clear, it isn't the issue of it "making sense" whether elementals had treasure--frankly, I could care less. It was that it didn't seem like the treasure was proportional to the challenge. We went on this crazy tower mod where we were constantly hit with spell strikes, voice radius damage, etc., and I came out with one or two gold, a potion, and a colored stick. We went on the easy elemental mod, and I came out with the same haul. That just didn't seem right.

Also, and this could just be me, but I HATE the magic item auctioning. I know it is an in-game decision that can be debated and whatnot. I understand the reasons characters do it. But the result of that is the haves keep on having, and the have nots will never have. It never fails that the one or two teams or people in town with a lot of coin buy every item. The mid-level and low-level people don't get any, unless they were lucky enough to be alone on a mod where something like that came out. Why this matters is that when group treasure comes out, how it is split depends in large part on who comes with one of the plot people to bring the box back. If it is me, I am going to split up the non-magic item treasure and randomly distribute the magic items or give them to the person it makes sense to have it. If it is someone who is pro-auction, it is going to end up being distributed that way nearly every time. Hence, the out-of-game treasure distribution policy and the out-of-game decision of who comes to fetch the group treasure will dictate the result in-game. I am not sure that I am ok with that. I am not sure how other people feel about this, but that's just my thought on it.

Logistics. Major thanks to Joe for having logistics so smooth. When I got there, I got through in probably 2 minutes, and was in game so fast it was silly. So, so, so many thanks for that.

Signage. I had a hard time finding where in particular to go once I pulled off the main road. It might be nice to have some signs to take from camp to camp so people--especially out-of-towners--can find there way.

In sum, I had a good time at the event. Chad and Travis put on a good show, despite being one man down (we missed you Chris!). Already looking forward to the next one!

Joe
 
As I've said to a few people already, I really enjoyed being with just two of my brothers this event… The other one sick and the rest of The Crazy Eight out adventuring on their own. I felt like I had to take everything I had learned in these past few months and then use it to survive in Dulayne.

The Campsite
I loved Rota-Kiwan. I enjoyed having to walk a good distance to get from place to place instead of everything being (what I feel) almost closer than it should be. It gives a sense of danger when walking between the cabin and the tavern. I also loved how dark it was and not being able to see anything in front of you. I liked how there were various things that were in place (No job board, different magic, having to fight our way to the cabins, a non-combat tavern, etc.) to make Dulayne really stand out from the other towns. You could tell that they didn't like adventurers and that they had been by themselves in this mist for all those many years.

Plot Team
I've said it before, but I'll say it again... You guys are awesome. Every time I go to an event, I think that it can't possibly get any better, and then you always prove me wrong. There are so many highlights from this event... Being able to sit down and talk with NPCs about things, the biata stealing my stuff, the entire Rose Farmer event on Saturday night, and even the crazy Salt People who attacked me just after I had woken up on Sunday morning, which was something I wasn’t expecting in the slightest. This event literally caused me to shake with fear and be scared for my life… Something that I really enjoyed as opposed to the safety of the other towns. It was a nice change that I would certainly welcome again.

Summary
I feel like I could go on and on about everything that I loved about this event, but for fear of repeating myself and keeping this at a somewhat reasonable length, I won’t. The only problems that I really had at this event were miscommunications on rules. I had heard multiple things about what happened when someone was infected, but I was never sure which one was the right one. The other issue I had was when that crazy biata was running around while they were desecrated, which I didn’t think you could do. I don’t think either of these things caused any issues or affected the outcome of anything immensely, but I thought they should still be mentioned so that they can be fixed in the future.

All in all, I really enjoyed this event. Thanks to everyone for making my weekend a great one! I look forward to seeing you all in October.

Ian
 
First I would like to say thank you for all the hard work and effort that plot and the staff put into each and every event.

Bad stuff first so and I end on a good note.

Not my favorite camp. I think it will help if we can get the building a different building then pines next time, it will keep it for what seemed to be endless walking which I know was why some people felt less inclined to go to monster camp for mods and the like. Oh and OMG tree roots.

This event felt a little loose on the edges. I know that I don’t often throw myself into the plot, but you have in other events done a fantastic job of making the on goings transparent to even the casual observer (what’s going on, not how to fix it). It tied itself together nicely Saturday night, however only very few of us knew the why and how it came to be and most seemed lost as to the over all idea behind it. I like the idea of consequences for poor decisions/actions, just think that the presentation of this could have come across different

I am lock step with Joe and Joe with contracts and jobs board. Also would like to note that I am still a fan of the non-combat tavern.


Good Stuff

Biata attacks. Direct current screw up = direct reaction. Horrid planning on the pc’s part came to bite them right in the ***. So much fun getting jumped in the road by GJ, Tank and Steve and coming to the realization that one hit and its over and deciding to scram.

As town encounters go the Rose Farmer fight was outstanding. The npcs did an amazing job of playing the undead cards they were given. You could tell upon sight alone what type they were by the makeup and more importantly by the way they acted. GJ gets top marks for Anguish, that role could not have been played any better. You felt a connection to his insanity and pain just through your mannerisms. Chad you also did great. It was a clear departure from any other persona played this event and you could feel that the Farmer was a tortured spirit disapproving and disbelieving that anyone or anything can understand your plight.

I love the new people that come to play. It is fun to watch you learn and encounter new things. You all do such a good job of staying in game and striving to get better.

I am putting this in the good stuff to counter Dawns point. As I do respect your opinion, I feel that it is far from a complete critique of us as a chapter. Yes we have caustic and brash often bully like CHARATERS IN-GAME. We pcs are not the end all be all of the game. You have an equal, if not better chance to get information as you have a better in-game disposition then the others may. We "jerks/cliques" (i use jerks as that is how I feel you have portrayed some of us) of the game are often left out of the loop and miss a lot more of the plot then others due to this. It is a product of our roleplaying, not who we are, as real out of game people. Plot offers us all a huge amount of options out side of the pc’s in-game to get information. Never once have I seen them turn away a pc because they already gave out the info. Those that are in-game jerks do not and will not ask you to stop playing a helpful and friendly character, so I find it unfair to say they and their groups are the reason people don’t come.

Also you failed to mention at all as to the disposition of the players on an out-of –game level. I think all the people here are as friendly and helpful as we can be. We did everything we could to see to you and your crews comfort for sleeping arrangements, even going as far as bending my characters normal actions to let you sleep in the same ward as me (yes I am one of the jerks). You already mention people helping with your keys, but then I feel it is over shadowed for your dislike of very few peoples roleplaying. I also know that Joe did his best to help the new people you had with you in evey way he could. Even going as far as to give some helpful pointers to get the best bang of the build at the first event. I would say many if not all our players are more then fair and helpful. They strive to make a better game for all players and their play styles. The reason people get bad impressions is often the only thing they ever head about is how they were treated in-game, almost as if that is the only marker for a good game.


That is my rant


K Thanks
Doug
 
Hey all,

Here are just a few of my thoughts about what has been said so far as well as how the event went. Obviously this is from my perspective, which is that this latest event was only my third event ever and I NPC'ed a good amount of the time.

Rota-Kiwan: I actually loved the site. We may have been able to use the space we had more effectively (though I don't know how much was ours to play with) and the other problem was the turn out (less people makes a bigger space seem too big) but there was nothing more frightening than walking that path at night by yourself. Don't get me wrong, that happens at other sites as well, but these paths are so long and covered by forest that it truly is frightening (even on an out of game level). The problem is we cannot really plan for how many people will be showing up (I don't think). The prereg goes a long way to figuring that out, but the campsites are scheduled months in advance. So I'm trying to judge just the site, which makes me say that this is a great site, maybe it just needs to be utilized more effectively to everybody's taste.

Though I have to agree that it isn't my favorite site (but I'm not sure that I have one) and I wholeheartedly think there needs to be a sign when you first pull off the main road. I drove the complete wrong way the first time and would have been completely lost if there wasn't a campground staff member at the first place I went.

Clique-ishness: I understand where Dawn is coming from, however I haven't had that many experiences of it. There are obviously groups of adventurers that stick together and do their own thing usually, creating an ostracized feel for newer players who don't have a group, but I've never been told "NO" specifically. (though that just might be my amazing charm, personality and good looks :D ) Seriously though, my group was drastically smaller than it normally is, and usually (since we are all low[er] lvl adventurers and some of us are roleplaying semi-altruists) we try to include everyone in our stuff that would like to be included and even people who would not like to be included are forced to be (Hi Mathis!!!! :D ). We did make the attempt to reach out to the newer newbies and went to ask them to come adventure with us, etc. And I gave them all the scoop on what my character knew coming into the event, let them know what we rolled up on as we got to Delaynne, and just generally tried to include them. I think it just depends on what role certain characters have taken up. It might be the case that there are more people roleplaying jerks in our chapter (I don't know what that says about southern MI people), but I haven't run into that too much and I don't really think that is the case. Again though, I get to just stay in my group and we haven't HAD to rely on other people too much yet (sorry Mathis). Though I can certainly see and understand your point.

Treasure: I'm fine with it being at the end, as long as people are in agreeance before going on a MOD together. I have never seen an item auctioned though and what you say is obviously a prima facie concern. But from what I understand, doing it the other way has problems too (Only one person checks all the bodies, etc)? Anyway, the part I really wanted to speak to is the seemingly inconsistent gold flow. In my first event I racked up 8 gold, and then in the next two events combined I only pulled in 1.5 I don't really care, I'm just pointing it out. Loot hasn't been an issue for me so far. I just like to adventure.

NPC-ing and Lowbie stuff These two points are connected for me, as you will see in a moment, though there are obviously different points to each.

First lowbie stuff. I realize that this event was not supposed to be catered to the lowbies in anyway. It was mostly unscaled and looked to go big and scary. However, in my first two events, I felt like I (as a lowbie) was really doing a lot of stuff. Different jobs, adventures, IBGA stuff, etc. This event, I didn't get any of that. Part of that, I think, was the lack of the contracts or job board (unless I missed it). That lets us/me know what I/we can and cannot do, realistically, and it gives me/us things to prepare for. I only PC'ed for two adventures (coming into town and freeing grain from the Biata) this event. The lowbies really couldn't handle (it seemed) anything else. In the events previous, my group had a lot of stuff going on individually, and I got to be included, but since we were missing a lot of members it probably played a part in how much interaction I had.

Now I normally NPC for a while at each event, even if it is just for one Mod or so (depending). And what I have done in the past was go to NPC until my group would need me, or it was obviously getting to a point where there were going to be things for my group to be able to do. But after rezzing in the first hour of the event (not plots fault, mostly on me, my group, etc) and watching everyone get housed, I knew that NPCing would be a good idea. This led to me NPCing most of the event (WHICH LET ME SAY I ABSOLUTELY LOVED), but I also would like to feel more effective or more included as a PC at events.

Next, NPCing was awesome. I always love to NPC. I get to feel my effect on plot, the world and other players. Most importantly (for me) though is that I get to learn, have fun and figure things out. Playing a Revenant and following my Daddy (GJ) was the best. Everything for that was perfect from my perspective.

PlotNow I know that I just somewhat complained about the lowbie stuff, but rolling into a place where there is a ton of bad shtuff isn't going to be easy. So I can completely understand how and why everything developed the way it did. I really liked watching everything unfold and it was really interesting to me to see the plot happen like that. Everything made sense to me and everything was well justified with a lot of causal rapport (honestly my favorite thing in stories/plot lines!!). Getting to watch everything unfold was a huge treat and I loved every minute of it.

tl;dr DO NOT GO INTO THE ROSEWOOD!!!!

and also, would liked to have seen more contracts/jobs. Although I overall loved it. Thanks guys, can't wait for October!!!

Zach (aka Jurickson)
 
I had a unique perspective from an NPC's standpoint this weekend. I will, nonetheless, give my opinion on all matters that interested me.

I play a mean PC; his name is Ashnar. I play a nice PC; his name is Nigel. I, however, am a Steve, the person behind those characters. I, as a member of this chapter, help shape its makeup. My characters, however, help shape the world they are in (and only that). I don't prescribe to the notion that mean PC's shape a chapter. I will say, though, that our IG world (which is partly shaped by mean PCs) might be a place other players from other chapters do not want to travel to. To me, that makes perfect sense. If your IG situation is Mos Eisley, you shouldn't expect kind-hearted people to want to travel there. That being said, I think if you want to say that our IG world is, at times, unfriendly and uninviting to travelers, I will not argue. For you to say, however, that the IG world created then reflects the chapter and/or those within in it is unfair.

I think a problem with IG auctioning should be handled IG. If you have an issue with the way a PC is divvying out a magic item, take care of it IG. Did anyone even outwardly tell the "auctioneer" they thought it was unfair? As an NPC, I completely missed any treasure distribution during the event. It wasn't until after that I'd heard all of the items were auctioned unidentified, which I was blown away by how awful a process that is. But see, that's an IG issue that should be handled IG. The treasure is given to a PC who brings it in and shows everyone what was there. There is a magic item that can't be broken up, so it's up to the group to decide how best to use it. Decide, that is, IG.

NPC came was far away. Like real far. That contributed to things being slow.

The feelings on the camp were mutual all around. I don't think we need to worry about going back after this year.

I will let the plot team speak for itself, but I will say that, after NPC'ing a full event in this town, I don't think it makes much IG sense to have a job board. This town is relatively frontier-ish, with what appeared to be a serious lack of institutional control. Both of these factors don't make me feel like a job board make very much IG sense. Just food for thought.

I was a grunt for the weekend, so I didn't get to see the plot aspects most of the time. I will say, though, that I though The Rose Farmer's mindset in regards to who he was killing vs. sparing was perfectly conceived. Four people came to his lands. Those people would either sacrifice themselves to save the rest of the town, or the rest of the town would die because they didn't care about the people enough to sacrifice themselves. Well, you see how that turned out. You have some characters who don't care enough about the rest of the adventurers to sacrifice their own lives for those who rezzed. The whole "good of the few vs the good of the many" thing. Frankly, I think the writing is on the wall IG, and The Rose Farmer was the one to point it out. What happens from there is on the other PC's shoulders.

GJ kicked some serious ***. He made my Saturday night. Rare to see someone play a part so incredibly perfectly.

Thanks for the props, Dawn! =) I really enjoyed playing that kobold with you guys.

Steve
 
Sorry for posting so late but with having Nationals at the start of last week and SoMI at the end, I had very little downtime with it being finals week at my college.

First, I think it is funny that you say the three didn't care enough to help the others not rez Steve. I for one only died because I ran out to help the others in the other circle and got beaten down properly for it. I am not in any way mad if anybody feels the way you pointed out, was just adding my two cents because I love debate :).

Second, I for one love having different campsites good or bad. The only thing I saw bad about this campsite was that we had NPC camp at the far cabin. Had it been in that little cabin near the tavern I think things would have been different. I for one LOVE having a combat tavern that makes you stay in character more often and also a field where we can have battles without worrying about fire pits. Many times in the non-combat tavern I see people slip out of game because it feels like sitting around bsing with friends. I love that aspect of the game but I like having to stay on my toes and not being absolutely safe anywhere. Was there other things that people didn't like about the camp other than the walk?

Third, GJ played the most amazing NPC I have ever experienced at Alliance period. I mean no disrespect to anybody else who has ever played but that Anquish character was scary, creepy, looked amazing, and was just all around freaking amazing. Hearing GJ from one side of the camp to the other for "Daddy" was creepy and frightening as all hell. I haven't felt that in years.

Fourth, I ABSOLUTELY LOVED this game. It felt like old school Caladore which I had missed a lot. I know it is not for everybody but I loved it. I loved beings scared everywhere I went again. I loved getting rolled in the tavern again. I loved being scattered to the four winds by NPCS again.

This was the first time in a couple of years that I felt I understood plotlines and felt involved in something. I felt invested into something for once and it was amazing. With contracts and job boards I feel as though we are playing real life WoW where we go up to a quest giver, accept a quest, go kill something or loot something and then receive treasure. I am not complaining that they are in game, I am just saying it kills the flow of plot for me personally. I personally dislike the jumping from waystone to waystone, contract to contract which we didn't do this time and I loved it.

I think Steve hit it on the head too when he said people expect too much from plot. When I first started plot didn't get involved in all of this out of game stuff. PCs had to deal with other PCs IN GAME. This does not always mean PVP. Many times I have seen PCs hire NPCs to knock off or even scare another PC for things they have done in game. Now it seems people just complain about it out of game and expect it to change in game. I hate that. Sometimes as a PC you don't even have to kill people or whatnot to get your point across in game. Healers can refuse to heal people, fighters can refuse to kill monsters gunning for the other PC etc. There are many in game ways to deal with things.

There are other things I would like to comment on about PCs but I will put it in a different thread. As for the game I loved it. It was the first time in forever I saw swift and awesome consequences for actions. We as a whole got attacked from the Biata for a f*** up, attacked by the Rose Farmer for being idiots, and also attacked from Sebastian's men for stuff from other marketdays. It really felt good to see that dynamic back in game.

This was by far my favorite event from the current plot team and the least favorite event when it came to people complaining about things because it was not their way for once. The last few events have been catered to a style that I do not care for but I made the best of it to play with others. I just wish we could all (myself included) learn to do this again for everybody.
 
I have to say that overall this event was so/so for me. There were some things I really liked and others I didn’t. I would like to share my thoughts from both a staff perspective and a PC perspective.

What I liked:

NPCs: You all did an amazing job! I truly feel that each and every person who NPCd went above and beyond to role-play the cards given to you. Vines acted like vines, undead acted like undead, nobles acted like jerks…I mean like nobles :twisted: . I really appreciate all of your hard work and dedication to entertaining the PCs.

Logistics: Joe, thank you so much for putting some much effort in to making logistics run smoothly. You have been doing an outstanding job while Brigit has been away. Logistics is a bear of a job and you are killing it!

Plot: The Saturday night rose farmer encounter was intense and fun! I love hiding in the woods (except the prickers) and I had fun hanging out with Elabreeze in the woods wondering who all was dead. The role-play by Chad and GJ was superb! I also enjoyed the vine/undead mod. It was tough but fun. I liked that there were some many different effects going on that people had to role-play. Watching Lukas try to kill things that weren’t there while Naomi ran around looking like a terrified cat was fun. Good times ;)

PC volunteers: I saw quite a few PCs take time out to help NPC for periods of time throughout the event. Thank you all so much for helping the plot team and taking the initiative to help make everyone’s game better. HUGE thank you to David W., Kaitlyn, Ian, Baylan, and David M. for helping me clean up the tavern building on Sunday. The place was trashed and without all of your help I would have been cleaning all day. Also a big thank you to everyone who helped do dishes throughout the event. I know your help was appreciated not only by me but also Matt.

PCs helping new players: Overall I felt that as a chapter everyone really helped the new players with understanding the rules in a very polite and supportive manner. We have really awesome and supportive people who play this game and it really shines through when seeing everyone teach the new players.

New Players: I just love you guys! You bring an enthusiasm to the game that we are in dire need of. Any time I was around any of the new/newish players (gypsies, wylderkin, or the lone human) I felt carefree and excited for you guys. On Sunday when you were all helping me clean up the tavern, you ALL had such positive things to say about the event and I really appreciate your light heartedness and enthusiasm about the game and our chapter (if that makes any sense at all).

What I didn’t like:

Camp: This camp was not so great. We had hopes that this camp would bring on feelings of nostalgia and excitement but it ended up just feeling like a lot of walking and spiderwebby cabins. NPC camp was WAY too far from the PCs and I think that had an effect on how easily the plot team and NPCs could get into action. We do have this camp rented for our next event, but we are looking into other options. At the very least, we will try to switch which cabins we will be renting.

Negative PC feel: I’m not really sure what was going on this weekend, but the sense of community we have been trying to establish seemed non-existent to me. There was a definite feeling of the have and the have not’s this weekend. I personally felt like this on Friday night. I didn’t know much of what was going on and I felt like an outsider. However, I fully realize that this could be because I didn’t have any of my group members there and I hadn’t PCd Noni in a year. Also I was not proactive AT ALL! I didn’t really ask other people what was going on and I also never went to NPC camp to find something to do. That is 100% my fault and decision.
There can be a fine line between recognizing you are being excluded due to in game issues/character differences versus feeling like you are just flat out being excluded from the game. I am struggling to put my finger on why there was so much negativity this weekend though. Was there a lack of role-play NPCs putting out information or hooking mods? Were people hoarding information and treasure IG and it was upsetting people OOG? Was the different style of game play to blame? Were people ignoring others because they aren’t friends with each other out of game? Were people making personal judgments about people on an out of game level based on how those players play their PCs? I really don’t know. Our chapter has always had separate groups and both good and evil PCs and I don’t ever want that to change. I like that there is conflict among the PCs, but I don’t like it when people are having a bad time out of game because people are being overly exclusive. I also don’t like to hear that people are bored when they aren’t doing anything to remedy it. I don’t know what the answer is here but everyone has the right to play the game they want to play in our chapter. On an IG level, not everyone is going to get along (which makes the game seem much more realistic to me) but on an OOG game level I expect our players to treat each other with respect and courtesy.

GJ and I are going to continue to brainstorm ways to create a community in our game. Community is something that is very important to us as well as the Alliance as a whole. However, we cannot create a community on our own. Building a sense of community relies on all of us as a chapter. We play this game so we can be the superheroes we are not in real life and I want everyone to have an opportunity to wear their superhero cape (whatever color that cape may be) so to speak!

No job board: We need more of this. Job board = :hahaha: I think a lot of people missed the job board this event.

So, yes, this event was not our best event of the year but it really brought to light things that people like and the things people don’t. Crappy camp: that can be fixed. Loose ends in plot: that can be fixed. Signage: that can be fixed (good call Joe). Based on the feedback we had gotten from some of our players earlier this season, out plot team put an intense event together to address their requests and I think they did an amazing job of doing just that.

We appreciate ALL of your feedback, both good and bad. Our chapter cannot get better if we don’t know what we are doing right and wrong. Every chapter in the Alliance is different and I really value everyone taking the time to help make South Michigan the best it can be!
 
I had an amazing time. Thank you NPC's, PC's and Plot. Especially Plot.

The Good- I love an intensive game, and this event was that. I have not been scared playing this game in a long time, and man how I missed it. You guys gave me that moment back, thank you. GJ- You were amazing as Anguish (not to mention the rest of your characters). When I was hiding in the woods attempting to creep back to town I would hear you holler and my brain would immediately say "oh **** oh **** oh ****' Bat Kin Guy- I apologize for not learning your name but you were awesome to watch as you were NPCing in the tavern as undead. Steve- You're great, N'uff said. Plot- I always have a great time role playing with you, and fighting against you. I loved that I got attacked after bedtime. The shadow of Travis in the doorway was wicked! You guys had a lot to contend with because of the site/far away NPC camp. Thank you guys for constantly running back and forth to change make up and costumes. You always try to look amazing as your NPC's and I appreciate you guys for your hard work.

The Bad- I love Rota Kiwan but it is way too big for our current size of game. Chelsea has come to feel like our chapters home. It is also closer for most of our player base (even if at my distance it really doesn't make a difference) I like having one town, over the last few years our characters have moved so much. I dont mind once and awhile our town going to other places, but Id like a consistent town.

The Ugly- I wish there wasn't so much negativity. That being said, here are my thoughts on the matters that have been addressed. For both Cliquishness and Treasure split I have the same feeling. It's in game. If you have a problem with the way a character or group of characters are acting, deal with it in game. I would love to have a confrontation with you, I enjoy the RP. The same goes with treasure. It's up to the PC's to divide the treasure, if you don't like how it's being done, please say something! We can have a good ol' time talking it out. I personally hate splitting up treasure for people and would be way happier if I just threw the money, components, scrolls and MI's into the air and let everyone 'mad dash' it for the good stuff. Personally, I think the twins would to very well with this treasure splitting tactic. I do not like end of mod treasure but I realize that most people do so I live with it.
When I started Naomi, I made her to be a jerk. My character before her was nice to everyone so I wanted to do something different. I have toned it down over the last few years to be accommodating to newbies and out of town people. I didn't have a group for a long time and I still managed to find plot or something to do. Plot bends over backwards trying to make a good game for you. If you go looking for it, plot will have something for you to do. You just need to make an effort. The whole chapter cant always go on the same mods or know everything that everyone else knows. It's a find out in game thing. I don't always know whats going on at an event, but its not too difficult to talk to people and find out. the point is that the Cliquishness is an In Game thing. I love our New people ( you guys are freaking awesome) if I have failed to make that clear I will personally apologize to you. In song, standing on my head if need be. My email is tc.bastin@gmail.com. I will always help out OOG whenever possible, and sometimes in game too! (I like Tadron, almost rezzed trying to save some of our new players this weekend. I would do it again too) If I am an *** to you In Game, please remember that Out of Game I heart your face.

Like I said I like a scary, fight intensive game. I understand its not for everyone so I am fine with having more calmer events from time to time as well. Everyone now and then though, its nice to have your *** handed to you. It reminds you that you are not all powerful and it's fun to sometimes lose. It makes winning the other times all that more sweet.

All I have left to say is Thank you plot, you did an amazing job, Rock on.
T.
 
Wow. This feedback has been great.

I want to be clear that we take every piece of feedback to heart, and have already had a long discussion about all of this. I hope to get another feedback thread like this going after next event. Great stuff, I'd rather have a laundry list of negatives then a one line good event. You can't do anything with good event but, we can address each of these pieces with care. Always want to make next event better.
 
I really enjoyed this event. Saturday night was absolutely terrifying, having undead pop out of my body, hiding in the circle and then escaping the tavern to the woods with Lukas and Noni, where somehow GJ found us. It was so scary when he was right next to me fighting Noni and then chasing Lukas off, while I was hiding under a fallen tree trying to disappear. I'm still surprised we made it out of that alive. I like being scared and having to flee a battle once in a while.

I like how vastly different this event was from the last few. I like both styles, but its fun to see the game change when we go to different sites. The weekend felt like it went by really fast for me because I was almost constantly busy doing something and I was not at any point bored. I like the job board but I didn't really miss it this event.

I'm really working on trying to talk more and get in to more role play. Its taking me a long time and I often feel like I'm not making any progress, but I appreciate that no one really excludes me when I do want to be a part of something or just have a chat or whatever.

I didn't mind the site, and having a combat tavern once again was awesome and something I'd like to see more often.
 
Ok, so time for my first feedback post!

Good: I came into the event knowing it would be tough. When I got there and was told it was unscaled as well, well it added to exactly what I thought a new adventurer would feel getting into all this and really helped me feel in character if that's not too odd. I played the new Gypsy brother at this event and my idea for how it would go was I would walk in being cocky about my strength (all my relatives I was coming to help were scholars, not fighters) and I felt like I was put right into my place in that first fight down to the cabin. I realized just how weak I really was. Another good thing was everyone's general helpfulness. As one of the new players, I didn't feel left out of anything I WANTED to be a part of, in fact, several people invited me to things I shouldn't have even done. In character, when told a salt elemental was water and death, I wasn't exactly jumping on the opportunity to fight them, though some of the higher players DID invite me along. As weird as it sounds, I'm glad the Biata knocked me out and taught me a valuable lesson of not trusting people when I can just as easily talk through a ward. As a last note, thank you for actually terrifying me on Saturday night, it was a riot and I cant wait for more!

Bad: Without any prior experience, I really don't have bad things to say about the campsite, but I did notice the times we made the higher group wait, namely the mod with the slavers, sorry I just had trouble learning the card, and will try to be quicker about it in the future, and I don think the distance from cabin to monster camp played a part in the timing of everything. Having heard about the job board I would have liked to have that option, but I understand as a frontier area that doesn't typically get adventurers, and kinda tried to get us killed/ leave the town, I see why it wasn't there.

Side notes: As a new player, I greatly enjoyed the event as a whole. I don't know if it was because it actually was a larp, or because the stuff in it made it fun, but you can be sure this wont be the last you see of me, and I can't wait to see and do more! I'm already looking for parts to make my own sword and shield for play next month, and cant wait to see you all again!(I talked to Chad and Steve about how they made that round shield, If someone can remind me I would be grateful!)

Ardos
 
From the plot team (not just the guy posting this, all three),

We can't thank you enough for the fantastic amount of reviews we have received on our event! These kinds of discussions are exactly what we want when it comes to the betterment of our game. Of course some points of discussion a plot team can't address because it can give away information out-of-game. We never want to take away the mystery of the unknown in our game.

Larp plot is simultaneously the one most rewarding and frustrating methods of storytelling anyone can write/work at. You create your world, set the rules to the world, create the characters of that world, weave mystery and intrigue into your world, all so you can set the protagonists free to play in it and/or burn it to the ground, and that's the most important part. The world belongs to the protagonists, the heros, YOU the players. If you aren't having fun then We/Plot/The World will not be having very much fun... and we want to have fun. Clearly we aren't in this for the sneaker endorsements.

That said a small bit of illumination on our process/world is in order to clear any new Out-Of-Game confusion so that the IG confusion makes more sense. Yeah, I know that statement hurt brains, but it's true.


-Rota-Kiwan: The site worked against us, that much is certain. With monster camp so far away it made for lull times we worked very hard to avoid. There is one more event scheduled for that camp and the intent is to have Monster Camp located in the cabin that is just behind the tavern to make for quick access. We, the staff as a whole, have little interest in using that site any longer.



-Job Boards: The lack of a job board and our normal play style in September was due to the setting. The Boarderlands and the "outpost" in the Duchy of Hent were obviously not just ramshackle... but basically enemy territory under siege from untold numbers of unknown factions. We have no intentions to deviate from our usual play style except when it came time to tell this kind of story. We always try to do what makes the most sense in that story to keep it as real as fantasy worlds can feel. Now that the heros of our story have taken the town and faced the unscaled rampage that is the Boarderlands some civilization can be brought to where there once was nothing (ie contracts etc...), or you can kill everyone and leave, your call. Still we hear you in that you liked how you as players were communicating with us as plot.

It's worth mentioning that no matter how tired we are we love a knock at the door from a PC that tells us they have rallied some friends to go smite the whom-ever-they-are's or investigate-that-thing-we-heard-mentioned-in-passing-by-a-dude-we-don't-trust... it means you are exploring what we created and want to go play with it. There is no better compliment to a Plot member, Really.

PC pro-activity didn't fall off at this last event despite the challenges we set down (and the unintended ones.... So. Many. Stairs.... ugh). It made us push harder, we thank you for that.



-Treasure: The conversion to treasure-at-the-end for mod running was to do roughly three things:
1. Streamline the encounters so that there was more fighting/fun and less of scavenging around.
2. Keep all coin, reps, and paper production tags where PCs could find them and not scattered over the whole of the camp never to be found again. (of course this also helps with camp clean up)
3. To make certain that treasure got distributed to all the players that went on the mod.
1 and 2 were easy but it now seems that there is an issue getting to 3. This is where we would like some dialog to take place as to the out-of-game possibilities.

Treasure at the end means that one person collects the treasure and that they are responsible for the OOG distribution of it. It also means that anyone that went on the mod knows everything that dropped on said mod and should get an even cut despite faction, race, or any other purely in-game difference. Of course that isn't always possible with the amount that is there. It also means that OOG distribution is sometimes settled with IG means. Thus the auction system was born. This is an example of an IG situation that plot cannot change or take control of because it's a player driven IG event and we can't tell you how to play. Yet the auction is an inevitable result of the current treasure policy.

An alternate method of treasure distribution for SoMi is that treasure drops from only what you search. Or that it also drops in controlled environments like mod buildings and cabins but never outside (because #2 is really important). This keeps general treasure much more IG but runs different risks. In games past I have played often it is the fighter at the front that gets to search first and the prize goes to who can sneak it into a pocket leaving everyone to wonder. That said the loot sometimes goes to the little guy in the back that was paying attention and doesn't have much more to do than to pick up everything the people in front of him don't have time to pick up. Plot teams often more prefer this method because it keeps everything in the hands of the players as an in-game element. A fight-for-what-you-want sort of survival rule. Still even when everyone is working together and the pile is brought back to the tavern at the end something akin to the auction often starts right back up...

What we want as Plot is to give you treasure that has value and meaning to it. Often the way you earn your treasure is what gives it's real value. So we really want to hear from you on this.



-Information: The struggle of every single player and staff member of Alliance is the availability and flow of information. Nothing makes players and staff alike pull their hair out more when huge efforts went to dispersing information towards a goal only to find out that it was all wrong, was never shared, or was simply forgotten. Thus whatever task was to be done crashes like Scottsman with thirty pints of beer in him driving a golf cart through a china shop at night during a blackout.... while on fire.

When it comes to rule clarifications that's on us. For example we explained the special 'Infect' effect at the beginning of play but apparently there were still some misconceptions. That's all on us. Our bad.

Still we, like every plot team ever, can only do so much when it comes to how much information goes out about the on-goings of the events taking place in the game. What we can do is make sure it actually does goes out and try to find that subtle line of what's too much or too little. We want to portray a world you understand but a mystery that needs to be explored at the same time. We try hard to get the good stuff out there, make the bad stuff discover-able, and hide the really really good stuff so that when you find it you just know you found something incredibly important. I promise you the information is out there because if you as players don't get it you won't have fun, and thus neither will we.

That said if our presentation to you never seems to answer your 'what' (in that you just don't understand what the heck is happening) instead of your why (in that you understand "what" is happening right now... but you have no idea why) we need to know. It can be a fine line sometimes. Plot often gives out the 'what' and players go find the 'why'. If you never feel you get the 'what' in most situations we want to know. This is a hard point to put to words but we hope this makes sense.



-Role-Play: No one on Plot can tell anyone how to play their character. All we can do is provide rewards for doing things right and consequences for doing things wrong. Of course right and wrong become subjective to the story... but then that's life too isn't it?

Our players shape our world and the story, not us. When we, as a team, write pages and pages of world development we did it so that our players would have tons of options available to them, and we in turn were prepared for as many decisions as possible. We three will never be as smart as all of our players. We will be surprised at every event at what you come up with from what we gave you. At the beginning we never imagined the team would throw out whole sections of written work and entire written weekends with a smile because of what the PCs decided do and where they took the story. We can't thank you enough for that stuff... it's like heroine to us.

There is little reason to believe that anyone in our chapter would attempt to block the fun of another for out-of-game reasons. Our players are just too classy for that. Still we never like to hear about anyone not having a good time. While it will never be our job to correct someone’s character role-play it is our job to make certain that people are having fun. That's sometimes a crappy place to have to work from and we always need help. We won't stand for players to be ostracized, but we can't help the characters. So how can we improve this community?

On a side note if you ever feel ignored by plot please let us know. We go a mile a minute on what could be called "poor nutrition and sleep" and could also be called "brain damage"... it's possible we missed a few things along the way... including your interest in what was happening. This plot team responds in big ways to players proactively going after their role-play, but that is just another way of saying that you let us know what you are interested in again. If you see something you want to know more about walk up and start asking the NPC, include it in your in-between-game-action, just flat out email us... whatever. We won't just throw powers and magic items at you just for the asking but, and I swear this is true, we have meetings/discussions on every letter sent to us... and that leads to good things for everyone.


Bottom line: we want to tell you a story, and we want you to enjoy playing in it. Thank you for teaching us how to do it better.

We look forward to seeing everyone in October!

The South Michigan Plot Team.
Chad, Chris, Travis
 
Review of Event:
Blast from the past, Rota-kiwan brought back all the good/bad from ol' Kzoo games for me most of which I blame on the campsite.
Effects of Campsite:
Due to the distance between "high population PC centers", you have PC clustering due to chances of being ambushed, slow down plot information transference and "splitting up the party" effects, all of which lead to negative effects on PC interaction. This enhances any clichishness tendancies that PCs have, as they will hang with their group more, hold onto the infrequent information more, and not "share" or "work together" as much due to feeling "vulnerable".

I enjoyed getting rolled, I hadn't had that happen for years :p. The roleplay of "heroically" fighting for the tavern while others contributed less was just fine by me, it highlights the "heroic" or more "practical" aspects of different characters. I thought the semi-romantic death scene between Don't and Gnot trying to save each other was awesome, best way to die, if you have to :p. I was definately impressed how when given instruction, the newest PCs on site could NPC hardcore ;)

Improvements for the game:
I recommend a variety of options for getting information out to the PCs, and if you are dropping puzzles, ensure that they cannot be removed, however materials for copying them are available. Information could be disemanated via Wanted Posters, Face to face discussion, notes in treasure boxes, Legends attached to trees, cryptic messages written on floors in chalk etc... Different playstyles of different characters necessitate a variety of methods. Similar for treasure distribution/mods, Job boards are fine (single physical location, non-removable, predictable), Mod Cards are great for those that when noone is around want to explore or if they miss the BIG PLOT HOOKS (multiple locations, removable, random), large plot hooks (APOCALYPSE, predictable, do this or die). Treasure can be distributed in a lot of ways, searchable, dropped on mod conclusion, in treasure chests hidden around the camp, or even sold in the tavern. I would LOVE to see NPC merchants with minor or major magic items roll into town to sell magic/production items for gold, would definately enhance the economic and roleplay activities and offer a change of pace for item acquistion other than "insert sword, retrieve treasure". They could hire/trust other PCs to protect them or bring their own guards with them, if PCs attack and roll them by all means send out "guardsmen" or "cops" to punish the PCs in the name of the law, for rolling the "thieves/merchant guild".


Lastly, please interact with people Out of Game so you can know the difference between their In Game character and their more normal social face. It can be difficult in emotional moments to be able to differentiate between IG activities and OOG motives. I think before game meals, or after game lunches would really help to get folks to know each other, and help smooth out those stereotypes where "Gnot is a big super stupid Orc, so his player must be as dumb as a rock", or "Katslyn is a big bitch in game, she must be a bitch in real life" moments where people judge each other.
 
I am very sad that I missed the last event. It sounds like a lot of fun, and more so the type of event I enjoy playing in. Even though I was not there I have found a couple of items I would like to chime in about that have been discussed on this thread.

Job Boards - I view job boards as the new mod cards. I believe they are superior to mod cards, because they give all players a chance to go do a mod. What I do not like about the job boards is that they seem to have become the primary running base that supports the whole plot structure of the event. The job boards are a great delivery for the fishbowl mechanic. However, I do not enjoy playing a larp that is a string of fishbowl mods. It feels like we are just doing combat exercises in between periods of PC on PC socializing. This makes the world feel less interactive, and it creates too great of a divide between being immersed in a plot fueled setting, and sitting around looking at my fellow adventurers entertaining each other. This actually leads into the next item I would like to address.

The Camps - Of the three camps that I have played at in SoMi I like the Chelsea camp the least. The only reason for this is the non-combat tavern. The tavern has become the most boring place in the entire camp. By making the tavern non-combat it leaves less places for encounters to occur. Now, things are either happening on trails in real time, or in mod time at monster camp. Lately, there have not been enough NPCs to facilitate trail time, so all the action has been happening in mod time. This makes everywhere else but monster camp extremely dull. This is compounded by the final item I would like to address.

NPC Fueled Plot - There are three primary delivery systems for delivering plot. There are static delivery systems such as private messages, job boards, mod cards, etc. There are hostile NPC delivered systems such as the chest thumping villain, or the angry mob sent by the local Big Bad. Lastly, there are friendly NPC delivered systems that interact with the players and create relationships with players. Soon, these players are happy to quest for their new found allies. The non-combat tavern makes hostile NPC delivered plot less prominent, and I have seen a distinct lack of friendly NPCs attemptin+g to role
play with the PCs. I believe that this is in part due to most of plot being run by job boards, which keeps runners at monster camp, and the other part in due to the non-combat tavern. I miss the type of larp that was fueled by mods delivered by NPC interaction. It made things feel more heroic when a town person came to ask the help of the local adventurers. I felt like I made an impact on the world, and that being an adventurer was important. Now, I feel like we all just compete with each other to go kill stuff and get loot.

These are only three items I wanted to talk about, and it seemed like the appropriate venue to do so. This is in no means a reflection on how I feel about the SoMi chapter as a whole. I have been very impressed with the amount of work that the plot team has put into the world. I love the passion and enthusiasm that the people of SoMi have for their chapter and their hobby. Costuming and make-up is always top notch. The tavern is always well run and available. Logistics is always prompt and we do not ever have to wait too long for game on. The list of positive things I could say about SoMi could go on and on. Even the three things I addressed in this post are really just about my own personal larping preference. I love your chapter and I truly believe that everyone does a great job.
 
Many people have been mentioning a primary negitive of the job board system is that it feels synthetic: reducing the game to a quest giver system with no soul or outward RP drive. we would like to challenge that issue by boincing back to the player.

We agree that it is easy to fall into a mod-to-mod rut, but it is also easy to fall into a fight-to-fight rut, the rut is caused by the player not the plot vehicle. A belief that the job board carries with it a stigma of anti-plot must be built upon the assumption that the job board is simply a series of mods built to deliver treasure, this is not true. Many PC's have discovered that the job board mods are a lot more than meets the eye, in some cases by pushing an NPC on the mod a bit further, in others by looking at the larger picture that exists between job postings. Any PC who wants more from their job board mod can easily find it, and we are speaking from the perspective of plot junkies.

As for "good hook" plots, people have often describe them as forced, and "bad hook" plots are often turned away by players, who, in the safety of their wards, have little to fear from bad guys who have not gone Super Saien, which is something we are trying to avoid. Not to mention the number of RP encounters with plot attached that are turned down flat by players who ask "what do I get out of it"; before turning to the job board and pulling a few more jobs to make some coin.

Don't get us wrong, we have been listening and discussing every single post in this thread, and we take all of it to heart and head in an attempt to run a better game, and we also listen to both sides of the job board discussion with eager ears. We just feel that we have developed a world to explore, and anyone who feels they are not receiving adventure they want, can find it easily, and that by the same token, those who do not want it can (and will) avoid it regardless of delivery.
 
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