To all AllianceLARP owners regarding Latex Weapons

[Mike Ventrella]

Also, no latex weapon lobbyists approached us or made contributions.

Mike, I'm sure you would have had plenty if the lobbyists knew that there was going to be a vote on using them. This is a persistent problem. People bitch on the boards and see stuff that other games are doing...finally writes something up. Submits it for a vote and the people against don't have a say because they have no clue its going on. So should people that are against Rule X that doesn't exist, write up a proposal that it should never come out?

If there is one thing I have learned after 20 years of running LARPs, it's that no matter what decision we make, someone will disagree. You can never please everyone. So you do what you think is best for the game overall, knowing that some players will be thrilled and some will absolutely hate it. I guess that's true of any organization or government.

What is important to me, as Fearless Leader, is to not impose my views on everyone, which is why I set up the Alliance so that chapter owners could vote. In fact, when it comes to rules about fighting and weapons and so on, I defer almost completely to them, as I have so little experience in the day to day fighting most players experience. If the owners had decided not to accept latex weapons, I wouldn't have forced them to.

 

[markusdark]

It is too easy to blame the implement instead of holding the wielder responsible.

QFT!

I agree that the wielder does need to be held responsible. On the other hand, we do play an intense game and even normally level-headed people do sometimes get overly excited and do increase the volume of their calls and the force of their swing. I don't know that the aspects of the game that overly excite normally level-headed people can (or should) ever completely be done away with.

To me, this is isn't an acceptable excuse. Yes, people can get heated, into the moment but as responsible, thinking players we should be held accountable to our actions and constantly be aware that what we have in our hands - even the duct tape boffers - can hurt someone if used incorrectly. There will always be mistakes but it is up to us to limit those numbers. And if the player is someone who can't control this, they need to find another way to deal with it.

I know of a player who has learned that sometimes when things get ramped up, he has to simply step out of the encounter because of control issues. Not a best case scenario but he has acknowledged his problem and has taken steps so that other's enjoyment and safety aren't impacted.

 

[Dreamingfurther]

I kinda agree with Mark on this one Becca, but I see your point too.

In any case the more responsible and safe everyone is the better we all are. And ultimately I think latex weapons will slowly work their way into the system and the more "allowing" we can be on the whole while keeping things safe the better off our whole game/organization will be. So everyone wins!

 

[Talen]

What latex-type weapons will do is change fighting. Not in a bad way, but it will.

I got my first dose of latex-style weapons playing in a LARP down in MD/VA/DC, Cambrion- which allowed both types (boffer and latex). You do need to learn to regauge with them, but it's not impossible to do so. The main drawback IMHO is they're a faster weapon, which once again is going to increase combat speeds...just like ultralights have. That can also mean it's harder to check a swing going awry, but they're also less massive and hopefully won't dent people in the process.

 

[Deadlands of Old]

Update:

So I see there is a lot of concern and I wanted to let people know what I've been doing. I've been working with a latex supplier who has been sending me weapons, which I then send back. I'm learning about brands. In the last couple months I've been speaking with people and checking out both industry and homemade latex weapons.

I can only speak for Deadlands. We will allow latex weapons on a case by case basis until I feel my staff and I have dealt with a large enough sample to merit being able to endorse a brand that we think works best, as far as safety and all that. However, even after that each weapon will have to be checked each event.

Personally, I'll be carrying a boffer and latex, and if someone really is phobic about fighting me while I'm using latex I'll switch. I think little concessions like this might help while people are getting use to the shift.

For the record, hit me with all the latex you want. I've had people nail me with a number of them, and I just don't think there all that bad. I mean...it's still just foam.

Trust your owner. They love you and need your money forever and ever.

And in NH as well, latex will be a well cautioned priviledge. But remember, guys. Everything is going to be alright.

Just foam.

 

[poolboy]

It is too easy to blame the implement instead of holding the wielder responsible.

I agree that the wielder does need to be held responsible. On the other hand, we do play an intense game and even normally level-headed people do sometimes get overly excited and do increase the volume of their calls and the force of their swing. I don't know that the aspects of the game that overly excite normally level-headed people can (or should) ever completely be done away with.

To me, this is isn't an acceptable excuse. Yes, people can get heated, into the moment but as responsible, thinking players we should be held accountable to our actions and constantly be aware that what we have in our hands - even the duct tape boffers - can hurt someone if used incorrectly. There will always be mistakes but it is up to us to limit those numbers. And if the player is someone who can't control this, they need to find another way to deal with it.

I know of a player who has learned that sometimes when things get ramped up, he has to simply step out of the encounter because of control issues. Not a best case scenario but he has acknowledged his problem and has taken steps so that other's enjoyment and safety aren't impacted.

I agree with both of you.

Contact LARP involves simulated combat and is a competition. This creates natural stress reactions in people. Getting hit with something, even a boffer, can trigger a stress reaction. When we are able to contextualize it, it's easy to dismiss. When things creep in that up the stress level, it gets harder to put the appropriate context on the activity, and then people get excited and things don't go as well as we'd like. However, "Heat of the Moment" should NEVER be an excuse for unsafe activities. If an unsafe activity happens as a result of emotional intensity, then the party responsible MUST be removed from the situation. If it happens repeatedly, then the person needs to be removed from activity which will PLACE them in that situation.

 

[Gilwing]

Also, no latex weapon lobbyists approached us or made contributions.

Mike, I'm sure you would have had plenty if the lobbyists knew that there was going to be a vote on using them. This is a persistent problem. People bitch on the boards and see stuff that other games are doing...finally writes something up. Submits it for a vote and the people against don't have a say because they have no clue its going on. So should people that are against Rule X that doesn't exist, write up a proposal that it should never come out?

If there is one thing I have learned after 20 years of running LARPs, it's that no matter what decision we make, someone will disagree. You can never please everyone. So you do what you think is best for the game overall, knowing that some players will be thrilled and some will absolutely hate it. I guess that's true of any organization or government.

What is important to me, as Fearless Leader, is to not impose my views on everyone, which is why I set up the Alliance so that chapter owners could vote. In fact, when it comes to rules about fighting and weapons and so on, I defer almost completely to them, as I have so little experience in the day to day fighting most players experience. If the owners had decided not to accept latex weapons, I wouldn't have forced them to.

I know I'm a little late, very busy at work with the snow coverage...Mike I know that not every one can agree. It is hard when you have over 1000 members; heck my wife and I can't even agree on dinner.

I am just responding to your statement about how no latex weapon lobbyists approached you or made any contributions when they were not aware of the proposal.

Again I do agree that you can not and will never please 100% of the people 100% of the time.

 

[Michiko]

So I'm looking at my post and markus' and scratching my head about what there is to agree or disagree about. To me it looks like we're saying the same thing:

We play an intense game.

Mistakes have happened, do happen and ever shall happen (crazy side-effect of being human).

People need to be aware and play responsibly.

After hearing more discussion on the matter the addition is starting to sound more exciting and less "Ye Gods!" We're all just going to have to see how it plays out.

Gary, thanks for the info. I feel happy knowing that there will be an inversely proportional relationship to how safe I feel IG and OOG in NH.

 

[meltedwing]

Having played in a couple of different larps that allow latex (although none of which are as combat heavy as the Alliance) I definitely think they add a lot to the game, and can be handled properly so as not to injure people.

That being said, the biggest concern I've heard from people is that they feel that getting hit with latex weapons all day will put them in a right angry mood, while they feel that the same cannot be said for standard tube swords.

Personally, I've had varying experiences with people and their tube swords. Everything from "I could barely feel that, so does it count?" to "HOLY BEJEEZUS, IS THERE LEAD IN THAT THING???"

In one of the games I play in, they use regular 30'ish pound draw bows, but require that people who use them must pass a safety test to make sure those people are aware of just how safe they need to be. Likewise, when I was a security guard like 15 years ago, we had to undergo the use of any "deterrent" that we wanted to be able to use in the field. If you wanted to carry pepper spray, you had to submit to being pepper sprayed so that you know exactly what you are putting someone else through. Perhaps safety training in the Alliance could include someone having a few people standing around them and beating on them with latex weapons for 30 to 60 seconds, seeing as that is a situation that happens all too frequently in our game with BBG's.

After going through that, you have to display that you can fight someone else and not bruise the bejeezus out of them with your latex weapon.

The odd thing, discussions like this happened all throughout the time when ultra-light weapons started proliferating, and now they are virtually the only thing people use. I can definitely see that Latex will be the weapon of choice at some point, but for now they need to go through the paces of acceptance just like any other leap in the game.

 

[Duke Frost]

An interesting point about the Big Bad Guy getting beat on for 30-60 seconds (or sometimes longer). If you are playing a critter with lots of body points, you might want to wear more padding/armor than if you are an 8 body goblin who will go down between 1 and 4 sword blows.

It almost always happens with the BBG that at the end you are the only one left and 40 people are fighting to get a wack in. With boffers or latex weapons, please plan accordingly.

Just saying.

Scott

 

[Michiko]

Scott,

You are absolutely right about the padding issue. Once I realized just how easily I bruise I tried to always make sure that I was at least wearing long sleeves and preferably a heavy sweatshirt when I NPCed (when PCing I usually just try to avoid getting hit). Then I realized during summer events that just isn't feasible and chalked the rest up to just dealing with it.

I plan to invest some more time and money into the issue of padding once I actually have the time and money to invest (which will hopefully be soon *fingers crossed*).

 

[Duke Frost]

Scott,

You are absolutely right about the padding issue. Once I realized just how easily I bruise I tried to always make sure that I was at least wearing long sleeves and preferably a heavy sweatshirt when I NPCed (when PCing I usually just try to avoid getting hit). Then I realized during summer events that just isn't feasible and chalked the rest up to just dealing with it.

I plan to invest some more time and money into the issue of padding once I actually have the time and money to invest (which will hopefully be soon *fingers crossed*).

Becca,

I play a dark elf in August. Wear some sleeves, sissy.

Scott

Disclaimer: Becca and I are friends that actually play together and this was meant as friendly ribbing. Any similarities to victims of the dark elves, living or dead, is purely coincidental. Any raising of said victims as undead was done purely for educational reasons.

 

[Deadlands of Old]

Side note of why armor is good, in general:

I have a permanent scar on my right *** cheek from fighting in this game (sharp stick). If I was wearing leather...

I have a blind spot in my right eye from fighting in this game (boffer hit me, btw)...

I have a friend who would have been impaled on a branch if he did not wear chainmail...

NONE of these things had anything to do with latex, but all of them happened during normal fights.

Wear armor or expect pain, scars and bruising, latex (or even boffers, for that matter) aside.

 

[Dreamingfurther]

Yea, sorry Becca, I gotta throw in with Scott on this one.

I play a Dark Elf in July...

(I'm also a friend of Becca's, were on the same team in fact, fyi though my ribbing is just a little more nasty than Scott's he's important and has to be nice to people and all...

 

[Michiko]

[sarcasm]Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!

But Scott (and Dave you crazy bandwagon hopper, you) if I cover up then I won't be able to distract people with my feminine wiles... which is really the only reason I play this game...[/sarcasm]

Disclaimer: No vegetarians were harmed in the making of this post... except Gary apparently. Ouch.

 

[Dreamingfurther]

Oh yea you can count on it.

When there is a wagon you better BET I will hop my band into it...

 

[Michiko]

Oh yea you can count on it.

When there is a wagon you better BET I will hop my band into it...

I just pictured how you would say that in my head and I just have to say, it was adorable.

What that has to do with latex weapons I have no idea, but I have to get my trolling in while I still can because tomorrow its back to trying to get inner city teenagers interested in the War of 1812...

 

[Toddo]

Lecture Topic Suggestion:

"Camp Followers: Morale vs. Syphillis"

 

[Sunnfire]

I should write an event with that title.

I played a dark elf in July. I am one month less cool than dave and scott.

Wear armor. Shockingly it protects you from injury. (hooray for scale mail, thanks bill!)

If we were playing with fluffy marshmallows and balloons as our weapons 99% of the injuries that have occurred, would still have happened.

Outside of the occasional misplaced shot to the soft areas of the body, I cant think of a single weapon related injury that has occurred while I was playing. Combat injuries sure, but if you are choosing to run through the woods, it is your own fault if you are not slick enough to get out of the stationary trees way. (I laugh at Scott, but only because nobody saw my similar encounter, so it didn't happen)

I discount the occasional accidental head shot and such, because really it doesnt matter what the weapon is, if you get hit in the eye, or groin its pretty irrelevant if the weapon is latex, boffer, or marshmallow (if you disbelieve that last one, I will be happy to show you).

Yeah, so I'm done rewriting this post. There was more, but now there is not.

 

[Gwendara]

Pssht, Dark Elves in August, people that don't wanna wear long sleeves. I spent the year in 130-140 degree desert weather with full length uniform and body armor. And I walked uphill both ways in the rocks to work! You can wear some longsleeves and padding it won't kill ya! Oh wait...you are doing this for *fun* and not at the behest of the government, you have a choice? Ok, I probably wouldn't wear a sweat shirt either. And you're right, Sophia can't use all her womanly charms with a bunch of clothing on... Cause y'know...prude off 2009...

<3