Too Much Stuff

so I've been hesitant about weighing in on this topic since I have no actual knowledge of the specific trial that started it off, but since we're now talking about IG legal rp in general and the sometimes thin line between oog I've decided to weigh in.

Eight years ago my character was convicted and marked as a necromancer, a mark which i do in fact still wear. OOG all i can say is Thank you Thank you Thank you to everyone involved in the original incident. Mike Hines and Eric Gibson that means you. Whatever aggravation it has caused my character ig, it has been the source of some of the most intense and enjoyable rp I've had in this game. IG i will contest the conviction to my character's dying breath, but OOG it's all in good fun and I'm glad it happened. It's had such a lasting impact that i can't imagine my character now without it.

As i see it, the law and politics of our realms is meant to be as much a part of the growing rp as any storyline the Plot staff sends out to us. The only difference is we get to write this story ourselves. Medieval justice was not like our own. Guilt was presumed, innocence had to be proven, and testimony and reputation often meant much more than any "evidence". Roll with it and enjoy it boys. Just remember that oog none of this is personal.

And if anyone would like to IG discuss these legal issues, please come find me in the Deadlands some time. I'm sure it will be a very spirited debate. :)
 
markusdark said:
Fearless Leader said:
There's also the issue of fugitive criminals, who commit crimes in one chapter and then never go back there. It's not like we can capture them and force them to go play in the other chapter again in order to face a trial...
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Sounds like time for rangers to me - People with writs of authority from one kingdom that allows them to hunt and dispense the judgement from another kingdom in accordance with treaties between the two.
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That's why I said we need to discuss it IG. Right now our chapter has absolutely no treaties with any other chapter, for instance.
 
now THAT's some good RP for the National games.

"oh hi king guy from some land, I'm lord dude from otherplace. I get your people in my land all the time, we should make treaties!"
 
Robb Graves said:
now THAT's some good RP for the National games.

"oh hi king guy from some land, I'm lord dude from otherplace. I get your people in my land all the time, we should make treaties!"
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Things like this are already happening elsewhere...
 
I only mentioned it OOG here because I don't think the idea has crossed many people's minds that it is something that could actually happen IG. And it just doesn't have to be about bandits. Imagine the RP/Plot possibilities if a mutual protection treaty was created that allowed such transfer of justice but then one of them are attacked by a wave of extra dimensional invaders. Now the other country has to send a bulk of their armed forces to help defend them, thereby leaving their homelands a little more vunerable for other things to go on...

This would require a little work from the plot committees of each chapter but nothing that would really cause any major headaches.
 
Fearless Leader said:
markusdark said:
Fearless Leader said:
There's also the issue of fugitive criminals, who commit crimes in one chapter and then never go back there. It's not like we can capture them and force them to go play in the other chapter again in order to face a trial...
Click to expand...

Sounds like time for rangers to me - People with writs of authority from one kingdom that allows them to hunt and dispense the judgement from another kingdom in accordance with treaties between the two.
Click to expand...

That's why I said we need to discuss it IG. Right now our chapter has absolutely no treaties with any other chapter, for instance.
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However a group of players have been trying to get such an extradition treaty going with ashbury for at least two years, and even brought signed letters from the nobility of their lands. It was shot down IG by npc nobility.
--bill
 
*bangs head on keyboard*

Since this entire thread has gone public I will have to also make this public, because it is unfair to redress NJ's part privately.

It is bad bad form for anyone to take a piece of the story and go running wild with it. In this case Dave got part of the story from the player, not the whole truth, and instead of investigating further, came forward and basted his ire, unknowing that it was based on incomplete facts. If there is an issue or a concern, the FIRST place ANYONE should go with a greivence or concern is the Customer Service Rep of a chapter. You can also go to Plot, The General Manager, and if you STILL dont feel you have been addressed, the Chairman of the Alliance, and the President himself if its just that important (however go through the other channels first, if you bother Renee who is insanely busy without going to customer service first, it wont help your issue).

And it is especially bad form for a staff member of another chapter to jump in with incomplete information and blast another chapter for something which wasnt accurrate. Had a simple call or email going "hey the player in question is upset and called me, and so Im forwarding this customer complaint to you" would have been the proper protocol. I do not fault wanting to champion another player and a friend, but there are proper ways to do so. Especially anyone on ANY staff must remember, when you post, OOG you are whether you realize it or not you are representing your Chapter.

So I apologize to the HQ plot committee, to Mike, Scott, Eric, Michelle and everyone else on HQ Staff. This was handled poorly and I will make sure to speak with all of MY staff. We are an alliance, and we all want our players to have fun and enjoy the game no matter WHICH chapter they decide to participate in. As chapter staff we should help and support one another to make the brand of Alliance a proud and strong one in the LARP community.

I urge all players of the game to take away this lesson: Alliancelarp staff cares whether or not you are having a good time at our events. Please speak to the Customer Service Rep at the game you have the issue in, if you have a problem at the game. And please bring all the facts to the table, we cannot help you, if you are not 100% honest with what transpired. Venting to your friends is one thing, but to properly address a CS issue, we need to handle it fairly from all sides.

Erica Stephenson
AllianceLarpNJ
 
Dear HQ staff,

I know it is too late because it was already posted, so i wanted to apologize for the post.

I was venting steam from a one sided story from said player, who did not give me near accurate information, who made it sound like the game had turned into playing incredible favorites and making the game great for a select few. Such OOG information such as level being used to determine how much stuff you have pissed me off because that is the opposite intent from everything written in the rulebook.

I was on the phone listening to him talk for a good part of the hour. He said that everything he did was earned IG without stealing, he thinks another talked to people OOG saying that he stole all this stuff, because of some OOG conflict. He thinks that too much OOG information was used to sway people's opinions, and was convinced that the judge had already made up his mind that he was guilty and wanted him to plead guilty. I wouldn't be lying if I felt more inclined to side with him because of an experience i had in the past where I felt the HQ staff in 2004 didn't trust me for anything, and banned me from having staff positions. I inquired why do people feel I'm this sneaky OOG thief and only got a response from the one who didn't have a problem with me.

So in the short, it appears that I smashed the rep of the entire game with this half-information, obviously made myself appear like I jump to conclusions too quickly (this one certainly was), and lost the trust in a friend's words all in one swing. I will do my best to use C.S. next time.

Sorry,
-Dave-
 
Chazz said:
Fearless Leader said:
Now THAT's an interesting issue that should be debated IG!

There's also the issue of fugitive criminals, who commit crimes in one chapter and then never go back there. It's not like we can capture them and force them to go play in the other chapter again in order to face a trial...
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Sure it should. AFTER a mechanic for it is discussed and agreed upon by both chapters BEFOREHAND OOG.

The title of fugitive cannot be given merely by the heresay of the common man, read: adventurer. Regardless of whom the burden of proof or disproof lies in.

If Joe Fighter walks into a chapter I were staffing at and says Stacy Scholar is a Necromancer then my response would be, "Thanks for letting us know, we will keep it in mind, unfortunately given we have no others facts or proof or ability to prove her innocence or guilt here then all we can do is that."

Whatever PC's decide to do against Stacy for her actions is IG. They could have done the same regardless of whether she was a Necromancer or not.

--Chazz
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Presumably if the proper authority was hunting someone in foreign lands they could send papers with someone to show it is legit (and have the choice of trying to contact someone of authority in that other land via the dream realm ahead of time if they choose), and there are several possibilities where it could go from there. The other option is to send a "bounty hunter" through the mists to handle the matter.

After long thought about why it should be debated ig and oog and typing reasons for both have come to the conclusion it can all be handled ig with out a need for oog consideration. IG this would be done through laws of different lands and treaties and not between various plot staffs oog. I don't know how all chapters are set up but it is imaginable that ultimate decision on the agreement of a treaty would require at least 1 NPCs approval, thus meaning plot would be able to review everything to make sure matters could be conducted in a fair way to players involved. Unless something along the lines of a chapter having treaties with every other chapter (would there really be a need treaties between chapters on opposite coasts) everything can be taken care of ig. Absent abuses, everything can all be handled ig.

In the Stacy Scholar scenario there is only an accusation. Joe Fighter didn't offer evidence so there should be no trial and since there is no way to investigate so that would be the proper way to handle it (barring an official who could be bribed :lol: )

Now, the ig discussions may result in the decision may be that a treaty is not need since the occurrences of "jurisdiction jumping" is minimal and its easier to just send a bounty hunter.......... ofcourse they always could do a "Riddick" and tell of of Fortannis that "so and so" is a necromancer and is coming to your lands........

Kevin
 
I accept your apology Dave and thank you for giving it (and Erica's too, of course).

I also have no issue with people venting to friends, especially in private. But cool down and think before posting things publicly. Not only does the written word carry more weight, it stays around forever. And the internet just blows things up even more (aka viral).

Sensitive matters like this, IMO, are much better dealt with face to face where it really sinks in that we're dealing with people and not some anonymous computer screen.

Scott
Alliance HQ General Manager.
 
No one protested and despite pleading from the Healers Guild, not one friend came forward to resurrect him.
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Well, that bit isn't true. Quite a few people protested, myself being one of them. As far as the ressurection, I was told IG that it was death until ressurection.

I'm with Chaz on OOG criminal policies, though. I think that's what skeeved me out about most of this.
 
So, now that there are apologies all around, can we get back to our regularly scheduled east coast vs west coast feud, with the mid-coast being ignored as usual? ;-)
 
Stoneskull_Rockfist said:
So, now that there are apologies all around, can we get back to our regularly scheduled east coast vs west coast feud, with the mid-coast being ignored as usual? ;-)
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Chicago style pizza is awful.

Sammy Sosa is a big roid head and lied to congress.

Dammit, I can't start a fight with Chicago. You have the Bears, Brian's song, George Halas, Mike Ditka, **** Butkus, Gale Sayers and Walter Payton. And some guy named Michael Jordan.

Da Bears. Da Bulls. Ditka!
 
youthculture said:
No one protested and despite pleading from the Healers Guild, not one friend came forward to resurrect him.
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Well, that bit isn't true. Quite a few people protested, myself being one of them. As far as the ressurection, I was told IG that it was death until ressurection.

I'm with Chaz on OOG criminal policies, though. I think that's what skeeved me out about most of this.
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Well, there were IG complaints of course, I just meant that no one stood up during the speeches and protested or anything. Zat put out the word that she was looking for someone to perform the resurrection and no one volunteered though, and that's what I was referring to.

The criminal policies would be an interesting topic to handle IG. It's the kind of plot I like, being the lawyer I am.

Someone said that there had been offers before, but I can only recall one incident where a "bounty hunter" came to our game to get someone and I said, rightly, that I could not enforce the bounty papers since we had no treaty with the other country, and for all I knew they were forged papers. So what we need is for Plot Committees from different chapters to work out official representatives who are allowed to negotiate treaties and deal with that IG.
 
Duke Frost said:
Chicago style pizza is awful.
quote]

Guessing you've never had Lou's....
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mid coast is bad ***. i'm going to come play a bunch of shows in the Chicago/Indy area at the end of summer with the band. power metal for everyone!

one day when i move there i will come play all the midcoast games too. :D
 
We do. All events take place in the bar/laundromat.
 
Chazz,

We call it Mid-Coast because after years of East Coast West Coast rivalries we got a bad case of "Coast Envy".

Scott,

Your just not being creative enough on where you dig. Between Daley and Blagoyavich you can insult for months. :)


As for the concept of IG laws going between chapters we've actually had a lot of legal issues between TC and CHI PCs which have resulted in the policies of one kingdom being affected by the legal winds of the other. This has caused friction for many of the PCs IG and has generally been a lot of fun for all. It has taken a bit of work on Matt Byers and Mine's part but has been a lot of fun.

Cross Chapter Manhunt Plot FTW!

Paul
 
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