Trapping Large Rooms

One point of interest: I personally have never been at a gane where the tavern didn't have a ward in the kitchen (except one time in an alternate universe). That's something any wannabe Guy Fawkes needs to plan around.
 
Kitchens on the West Coast are OOG as they are for food prep (and full of large dangerous non combat things). And it is expressly forbidden to run there to hide from combat (I would include traps in that) or to pass through to get around the back of combat.
 
See then you run into special exception cases. Will they be in there IG? Will they be allowed to leave to rescue the trapped people? Are they allowed to interact with the game?

I 100% agree that the kitchen is a very dangerous place to fight, heck even to just walk around in costume with weapons and shields.
 
They always have to leave the door furthest from the combat. They are OOG while in there. People really don't abuse it. We are a honor based game so we have to trust people in OOG spaces making the honest decision.
 
I'd like to point out that even if this isn't use to beat up PCs....

There's no reason PCs couldn't have a trap set up in the tavern for the explicit purpose of suicide-bombing a bunch of NPCs who attacked the tavern.
 
I'd make that MWE.
 
It doesn't seem to be explicitly defined - no outdoor area traps, unless you erect barriers to define a space? *laments the loss of land mines*

Also, will there be an established guideline for what constitutes a "game room"? I do not look forward to something this potentially powerful being left to marshal discretion. It's like trying to guess what an ump's strike zone is going to be, but if you take a pitch you shouldn't have, you die.

Finally, what about canisters for traps? If you check for traps in a 4-game-room room, and you find something fishy looking without a trigger on it, it would seem logical that there would have to be some way to trace this to the mother device, so you can attempt to disarm it. How is this intended to work out? Do you just need 1 rep and then additional tags, or additional reps without triggers, or additional reps WITH triggers?
 
Zymm said:
I do not look forward to something this potentially powerful being left to marshal discretion.
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This would probably have to be handled chapter by chapter. Once it's out, I recommend contacting your Marshals to discuss specific rooms in your main sites. However, that being said, if it's a situation on the fly, it's sorta the job of a Marshal to make a judgement call on it.
 
Lurin said:
In order to prevent any confusion in the future, with in the lands of Gaden and all other In Game locations provided by Southern Minnesota, Any Creature swinging for a 'Massive' Carrier, will in penetrate all Walls of Force, Circle of Power, or any plot created barriers of any kind unless explicitly state by a plot marshal in advance.

This may or may not allow the creature with sufficient strength to penetrate, or even destroy these effects with a counted call.

The only exception to this rule are particular Local effects and items that grant the ability to "Resist" a massive strike
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Sage of Legaia said:
A CoP specifically states that nothing but air goes through it, other than those invested or recognized into/out of it; weapons, gasses, spells, etc. are blocked by . Therefore, I would say that under no circumstances would a trap of any kind affect anything on the other side of a CoP, whether it was set off inside or outside of it.

On a side note, what rules for Massive is your chapter using? Because that sounds like a direct violation of the wording of CoP.
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See above. I'm not a fan of it, but I don't write the rules.
 
Massive does not penetrate CoP or Walls of Force. It penetrates Prison. Gaden's rules sound to be LCO (which is at SoMNs discretion).
 
Zymm said:
It doesn't seem to be explicitly defined - no outdoor area traps, unless you erect barriers to define a space? *laments the loss of land mines*

Also, will there be an established guideline for what constitutes a "game room"? I do not look forward to something this potentially powerful being left to marshal discretion. It's like trying to guess what an ump's strike zone is going to be, but if you take a pitch you shouldn't have, you die.

Finally, what about canisters for traps? If you check for traps in a 4-game-room room, and you find something fishy looking without a trigger on it, it would seem logical that there would have to be some way to trace this to the mother device, so you can attempt to disarm it. How is this intended to work out? Do you just need 1 rep and then additional tags, or additional reps without triggers, or additional reps WITH triggers?
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Outdoor traps still exist. Again that will be up to your PLOT team to decide (or the Marshal with instructions from PLOT) the radius etc.

For game room size we spoke of a "Cabin" as a game room. Ours are roughly 12x16. Our new site they will be 20x16. So your size will vary, but that should be pretty accurate. The problem with defining a set parameter is that no 2 sites are the same for cabins, halls etc. Your PLOT team will have to "eyeball" their site and set up just how big a "game room is". If there was a hard and fast size, then players/marshals could sit there and argue that this room is "larger or smaller" than the size set out in the rulebook and then headaches begin!

For a 4 room "game room" you have to have 1 canister, 1 trigger and 4 tags (of the exact same thing) to cover the area. I will have to review, but I do believe the canisters have to scale with the amount of game rooms.

One thing to remember: if it is not written in the playtest package, then the ARB still holds the information. So if an outdoor trap is not listed in the PTP, then you refer back to ARB 1.3 :)
 
One note: The Playtest Packet explicitly notes what happens if you set an Area Trap off when not in a Game Room. It's even in bold, just under the introductory paragraph on Area Traps:

If an Area Trap is set off when not in a Game Room, it will affect only the person who triggered it. The trap may be linked to a trigger line of no more than five feet in this case.
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Sure Bryan. But "Game Room" is still a nebulous term. I'm looking for a reason why I would not, as a trapper, have in game knowledge of how big a boom my trap will make until I try to set it off. The frustrating part of every answer I've gotten is that none of them has a reasonable explanation of why I may attend multiple events at the same site, go on encounters in the same physical space, and have a rule book-defined effect work differently because I had different marshals at different times.

I get that traps are underutilized. But I don't see the problem defining the range of a trap in concrete terms. Specifically, what problem does using a variable that is up to individual interpretation solve?

So I'm going to try to summarize everything I've read about the new ruleset and playtesting and see if I can make my point.

We're trying to make the rules easier to learn by reducing redundancies and inconsistencies.
We want to make rules easier for new players to understand.
Except area traps. We're completely leaving them vague and able to be interpreted on a case by case basis.
 
mythic said:
Outdoor traps still exist. Again that will be up to your PLOT team to decide (or the Marshal with instructions from PLOT) the radius etc.

For game room size we spoke of a "Cabin" as a game room. Ours are roughly 12x16. Our new site they will be 20x16. So your size will vary, but that should be pretty accurate. The problem with defining a set parameter is that no 2 sites are the same for cabins, halls etc. Your PLOT team will have to "eyeball" their site and set up just how big a "game room is". If there was a hard and fast size, then players/marshals could sit there and argue that this room is "larger or smaller" than the size set out in the rulebook and then headaches begin!

For a 4 room "game room" you have to have 1 canister, 1 trigger and 4 tags (of the exact same thing) to cover the area. I will have to review, but I do believe the canisters have to scale with the amount of game rooms.

One thing to remember: if it is not written in the playtest package, then the ARB still holds the information. So if an outdoor trap is not listed in the PTP, then you refer back to ARB 1.3 :)
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With regards to the statement "if there was a hard and fast size, then players/marshals could sit there and argue room is "larger or smaller" than the size set out in the rulebook and then headaches begin!"

With all due respect, I say poppycock! There is already verbiage written in the otherwise vague rule that negates this argument. Unless you are stating that you are worried that a player and a marshal are going to argue over a measurement (and last I checked, we've played for approximately 24 years with radius traps being 6' without it being an unsolvable problem) then you have the built-in caveat that a room larger than 1 "game room" requires additional traps to fill it out.

There are a whole host of other measurements in the rule book.

Again, please explain why making this one particular measurement variable is a value-add to the new rules.

If it helps frame your response, since you don't know me, I've been playing for 25 years, most of that a marshal and have been on staff in multiple chapters in the northeast. Not saying that makes me more knowledgeable about these new rules, just saying you don't have to create a frame of reference for me.
 
Zymm (or anyone else really),

In your experience with traps today, how does setting off a trap typically play out in your experience?

From my experience, it involves a hold while someone figures out who on this field is inside or outside the radius. Holds suck, in my opinion. They break the flow of action.

This "game room" area of effect is far more intuitive as far as judging who is affected by the trap when it goes off. The downside is the trap setter is going to have to find out from marshal prior to setting the trap.

If a chapter's marshals are given someone inconsistent answers on the room size of an area, alert the chapter owner. I am confident any chapter owner will work with their team to provide a more consistent experience.
 
Inconsistency from marshals? We already have that on a higher level in this post (I understand its new rules so there might be confusion among people).
I'm with Paul (Zymm). A nice, hard, fast 10' (or what ever feet). Nuff said. There is no ifs ands or buts about it. 10' is 10', east coast, west coast, different country (3.048Meters). Doesn't matter. Yes there will be a hold for the marshal to grab their measuring tape, or a weapon that the know is max length and find out who's hit because there will still be a hold called for the "game room" traps too. There should also be a hold for removal of the triggered trap and maybe trip wires as they could cause a hazard. Holds are inevitable, if every one knows the rules and plays by them with their best sportsmanship, the holds wont last long.
 
I don't think that this type of marshal inconsistency matters much. Sure, it affects how many resources someone spends to trap a room (1 unit, 2 units, etc.), but it doesn't change the result when the trap goes off. Judging whether someone is in a room or not is darn easy. The 10' rule, on the other hand, requires a tape measure (something I have never brought to an Alliance game) or a judgement call. The latter is much more likely in most scenarios, which means the result of the trap going off can easily be different depending on the marshal.

Between variation on cost to trap and variation on result of trap going off, I prefer the former.

-MS
 
Let's be real. The game is played on sites that have a limited number of buildings. This isn't something that should be getting resolved on the fly by the whim of an individual marshal. You should be able to, at the beginning of any event, get a definitive answer as to how many game rooms each in game building is rated to be that will be consistent throughout the event, and most likely from event to event. It's so unlikely that a random building that nobody knew was around will end up getting used for in game actions where that decision gets made in the moment, and a 5 minute discussion by a chapter's staff can resolve this issue before it begins.
 
... there will still be a hold called for the "game room" traps too. There should also be a hold for removal of the triggered trap and maybe trip wires as they could cause a hazard. Holds are inevitable, if every one knows the rules and plays by them with their best sportsmanship, the holds wont last long.
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Will there have to be a hold? I am not so sure but this is something that can be revealed during the play test. Has anyone actually play tested a "game room" (or rooms) area of effect trap and how did it actually play out? Was a hold necessary, and if so what needed to be resolved?
 
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