v0.10 Races

DiscOH

Artisan
With the addition of unlimited racial resists and the removal of most racial limitations, races feel a lot more significant to power level than they have in the past.

Do you feel like wylderkin should have their choice of any 2 racials? Should they have less choices? Locked choices?

Are races fine with just roleplay/makeup requirements?

Do you feel like all racials should have unlimited purchases?

Should more races have some sort of passive (claws) or discounts (MWE/Dwarf)?

Are the races fine as v0.10 currently has them written, or should something different be done? If so, what should change?
 
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Inaryn

Knight
Well, my Sarr is becoming a wylderkin... which doesn't bother me in the slightest. And, TBH, neither resist magic not racial dodge are on my list. I plan on keeping resist poison and taking resist command... and I won't be buying claws.

And my other character is a hobling without a single racial as yet... really just more a hobling for flavor honestly.
 

Muir

Fighter
Having spent a lot of time in Wylderkin/Sarr makeup, I think their racials are just fine for how much of a sheer pain in the neck it is to physrep them correctly. Fighting with a beak stinks, but I knew that going in. :) As noted in the rulebook, plot teams have discretion to deny or request changes to Wylderkin racial sets that they don't feel fit thematically at character creation.

I don't think the High Orc racial is good enough to replace Racial Prof and Racial Slay, and their whole rewrite has thematic issues. Firstly, they're losing two very strong active abilities in favor of a passive that I'd honestly rate on par with the 'half cost production' options other races have, and this is a high makeup and required prosthetic race. Further, if we're trying to make a 'warlike' race, why are we doing everything to make them most appealing to casters via removing the double cost to Educated -and- giving them a bonus that is wildly more effective for casters?
 
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jtsquish

Newbie
@Muir
"Wylderkin: Remove the double cost for Educated. Wylderkin now automatically gain the Claw racial skill as a purchasable option in addition to their two custom racial choices. Plot approval of racial skills is no longer required. Note that Gypsy Curse is no longer a racial skill."

Plot approval is no longer needed. It makes them quite a power race.
 

Muir

Fighter
I still don't think it's that bad. What's the best combination they can possibly bring to the table, Racial Dodge and Racial Resist Spell? Since an uncapped number of uses for either apparently isn't a problem when they're on Hoblings or Dark Elves, I doubt that a Wylderkin paying 10/5 per is going to be much worse.
 

Graham Wolsey

Scholar
Denver Staff
Marshal
Racial Dodge and Racial Resist Magic are not costed correctly if they are unlimited purchases. I'd also like to see Wylderkin get Claws and ONE Racial Ability of their choice. Other than those changes I think the races are fine or in some cases (Tusk Races) need a buff.
 

Tantarus

Squire
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
Racial evade should replace racial dodge, and return it to 1.3 evade, none of this half damage bs.
I would drop my race so fast if this happened. Evade isnt 1/5th the usefulness of dodge.

Racial Dodge and Racial Resist Magic are not costed correctly if they are unlimited purchases.
I use to believe this as well, But after a few play tests I have changed my mind, Giving up 30-50+ build for dodges is a real hit to your preregs and the high end abilities you can get. Especially for a hybrid class.

I'd also like to see Wylderkin get Claws and ONE Racial Ability of their choice.
I can get behind that with unlimited buys.
 

Graham Wolsey

Scholar
Denver Staff
Marshal
Unlimited buy 10 Build Dodge solves the main problems with being a Fighter. If people truly believe its not worth it then just give Fighters that and make us happy.
 

Tantarus

Squire
Unlimited buy 10 Build Dodge solves the main problems with being a Fighter. If people truly believe its not worth it then just give Fighters that and make us happy.
I do think fighters should get evade at a good cost. And yes for classes with bad scaling as what is happening to melee it gives you a good build dump. That is more an issue with the bad scaling they have done to those classes then racial dodge, imo.
 

MondayMcGee

Scholar
San Francisco Staff
I may be biased, but I’d love to see Biata get something. Lots of customer service type changes to racials, but no love to the race that’s original to Alliance.

No Celestial magic is a pretty brutal restriction, especially now that a lot of other racial downsides have been removed. . I’m not expecting or wanting the downside to change, but a buff of some kind would be nice. I saw someone suggest -1 build to create potion, to be comparable to stone elves. Personally I’d love to see something ward-ish that’s a little more accessible than spellcrafting an LCOP.
 

Melimir

Newbie
Asheville Staff
I may be biased, but I’d love to see Biata get something. Lots of customer service type changes to racials, but no love to the race that’s original to Alliance.

No Celestial magic is a pretty brutal restriction, especially now that a lot of other racial downsides have been removed. . I’m not expecting or wanting the downside to change, but a buff of some kind would be nice. I saw someone suggest -1 build to create potion, to be comparable to stone elves. Personally I’d love to see something ward-ish that’s a little more accessible than spellcrafting an LCOP.
Prosthetic eyebrows arn't anymore difficult than ears, and and they already get unique abilities.
 

Melimir

Newbie
Asheville Staff
Unlimited buy 10 Build Dodge solves the main problems with being a Fighter. If people truly believe its not worth it then just give Fighters that and make us happy.
Since I'm the one who brought up changing evade, I would make mettle work the same as dodge except with a 3 count stun effect (can't move/attack - think a monster ripping from a confine, but you can use mettle again and restart the count if you receive multiple takeouts). It'd be the fighter's total defense and slightly worse than dodge. Thematically it would be the fighter collecting himself and gritting through the attack for no effect. Its a catchall like dodge, and thematically inline with a fighter.

Plus I'd make parry/evade equal and work on all weapon strikes, and spell parry would be tied to parry again to give fighters that diversity.

In the end:
Weapon defense: evade=parry
Total defense: dodge >mettle (margin lessened)
Spell parry unique to the fighter skill again to make up the difference.
 

Axle

Newbie
Having spent a lot of time in Wylderkin/Sarr makeup, I think their racials are just fine for how much of a sheer pain in the neck it is to physrep them correctly. Fighting with a beak stinks, but I knew that going in. :) As noted in the rulebook, plot teams have discretion to deny or request changes to Wylderkin racial sets that they don't feel fit thematically at character creation.

I don't think the High Orc racial is good enough to replace Racial Prof and Racial Slay, and their whole rewrite has thematic issues. Firstly, they're losing two very strong active abilities in favor of a passive that I'd honestly rate on par with the 'half cost production' options other races have, and this is a high makeup and required prosthetic race. Further, if we're trying to make a 'warlike' race, why are we doing everything to make them most appealing to casters via removing the double cost to Educated -and- giving them a bonus that is wildly more effective for casters?
Have beak. Can confirm physreps are a pain.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Plot approval is no longer needed. It makes them quite a power race.
IMO, Plot approval should never have been a thing. I hate that it ever was, and I am beyond glad that it's going away forever.

I may be biased, but I’d love to see Biata get something. Lots of customer service type changes to racials, but no love to the race that’s original to Alliance.

No Celestial magic is a pretty brutal restriction, especially now that a lot of other racial downsides have been removed. . I’m not expecting or wanting the downside to change, but a buff of some kind would be nice. I saw someone suggest -1 build to create potion, to be comparable to stone elves. Personally I’d love to see something ward-ish that’s a little more accessible than spellcrafting an LCOP.
I do not believe that the powers behind this rules change have the ability to modify Biata.


I think Racial Dodge should remain at a limit of one purchase. It's a universal cloak. It is -easily- the most bang-for-your-buck racial in a game where survival abilities are more valued than anything else; it's why Rebirth is considered the most powerful High Magic ability (outside of Spirit Store, and Spirit Store only because Golems provide ridiculous immunities...and thus, survivability). It's why Fighters value Parry over Slay. It's why Skill Store Dodge is the most cherished of Skill Stores. It's why Regen and CSS are the two most valuable rituals in the game that aren't Permanent Duration.

In a game where there is no level or build cap, it's irrelevant that it costs 10 build. There are going to be kyn/hobling fighters who are running around with 10 Racial Dodges in their 30s, and I won't be able to blame them; this packet makes that the best way to go, hands down.
 

Inaryn

Knight
Yup, claws are an option available, not a given. If kyn were taken down to claws +1, I'd probably not stay a jaguar, since I don't plan on exercising that option.
 

DiscOH

Artisan
Yup, claws are an option available, not a given. If kyn were taken down to claws +1, I'd probably not stay a jaguar, since I don't plan on exercising that option.
What would you take instead?

Personally I'm a bit disappointed by the loss of sarr, since sarr have roleplay requirements and kyn don't.

I don't think pure power races really fit in alliance.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
What would you take instead?

Personally I'm a bit disappointed by the loss of sarr, since sarr have roleplay requirements and kyn don't.

I don't think pure power races really fit in alliance.
To be honest, there won't be anything preventing future cat-like characters from having those same roleplay choices, it just won't be forced on them any longer. People who like that aspect of Sarr can continue to play it accordingly. :)
 

DiscOH

Artisan
And you could also roleplay the same sarr traits while playing a human, but that doesn't help with immersion at all.

Sarr feel like a race, they have social trends and habits. Kyn seem like a stat block with prosthetics.
 
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