vulture looters (split off from the other topic)

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Kauss

Fighter
So, I hear a lot IG and ooc about vulture looters. A lot of people dont like them, and some defend them, and almost no one will fess up to being one. So what are some people's views on the subject?

Personly I think we have way to much vulture looting curently. There are whole events when I get most of my money from selling things, and see almost no treasure. We also hear a lot of healers getting nothing, or having to learn combat skills just to be able to get a little loot.
Personly I think part of the problem is its just to easy, tags dont take up much space, monsters rarely need to be body searched, and even formal scrolls are easy to slip into a outfit.
Now I understand theft is part of people's charicters. Heck I do my share of it as well, (tho not vulture looting, I steal diffrently), but it seems to have gotten to the point where a lot of people are doing it becouse others are doing it, making it worse all around. And in many cases, its people who normaly dont seem the vulture looting type, but they got tired of not making money.
Just my 2 cents.
 
Frankly, if there's one thing that makes me want to stop playing, it's the lack of physical, simple, monetary reward I see. I don't make money unless I A. sell fudge, B. whine, or C. stoop to vulture looting. I haven't stooped to vulture looting yet, because I think it's wrong. But I'm damn close.

It's the lamest thing someone can do. People end up upset over a paltry few silvers while someone else is sitting back, happy he got all the gold. Take a look around at everyone else. Guess what Mr. Vulture Looter. You just ruined their fun, and they paid just as much as you to have it.

As I said, if there's any one thing that makes me want to stop playing, it's that my character doesn't have enough money to do anything but replace arms and armor... at damn near 18th level.
 
Just in case anyone reading this isn't aware...

Vulture looting: taking loot off of a kill, when you didn't kill it.

My personal view of Vulture looting is that it's going to happen. Although more often than not, when I find myself in battle, I find myself turning around after killing a bunch of creatures and seeing people bent over bodies and taking loot... and I don't just mean a few people... I mean a lot of people. I remember one specific situation when Gregor and myself (and maybe one other person) fought like 10+ maybe 15 Gnolls and when I was all done killing and rp'ing with the Gnolls... there was not a coin in sight. Not a single coin. I will admit that I sometimes just don't loot my kills... and in those situations I don't care if someone else loots them... but it's rude when I haven't even had a chance to loot my kills because I'm still killing or rp'ing with the encounter. Makes me feel punished for playing out my character sometimes.

Mark
 
*DING*

Gee, folks. Ever wonder why I don't turn up as often as I *could*? Take a wild guess. Vulture looting happens, and it happens *alot*. I've seen it, and it's usually been by higher level characters than me. I won't go into naming the ones I've seen, because the problem is rampant.

I think it's bullsh*t and needs to stop.
 
Derek Ironhammer said:
Vulture looting: taking loot off of a kill, when you didn't kill it.
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Now see, I agree with this definition as far as it goes. However, there is more to it. I would add that Vulture Looting includes hoarding things gotten from a massive battle instead of willingly throwing it into the pot so that everyone gets a piece of the proverbial pie.

this is a massive problem. If people don't start sneaking around, taking money, items and so forth off any body they find, they'll never see a single copper coin. I know. I've experienced it.

Simply put, there seem to be an entire corps of greedy players bent on hoarding everything they can find, steal or hide from the rest of the playerbase.

it bites, especially for the younger players who don't have the opportunity to join in the major battle scenes or mods.

Be considerate, people. if there are others with you in the adventure/mod, make sure they get an even cut of the prize at the end.

Krill....err...Togg.
 
I remember my very first game day playing NERO

We were headed out to find Korin Skullcrushers bottle and pretty much the entire way through the module all I heard was if anybody is stealing loot from the party; I.E. Vulture looting, they are going to get killed. My though was man what a-holes, but as time went on I realized why. Vulture looting has been a problem for a long time, so back when I first started playing when we started a mod everyboby was warned if you get caught Vulture looting you will get killed. I seem to remember that at the end of mods back then there did seem to be more to go around
 
I think that we, as plot, are going to be adressing this issue to see what we can do IG to make a difference. More than likely it will involve detailed searches, but I think you will see a difference on that front.

Vulture looting is a problem, yes. But it is an IG problem, not an OOG one. Take care of it IG, I say. I know Rupert has seen it (and done his share on mods where it became clear the loot was not going to be shared, parcelling out most of it to those who helped him stay alive), but then Rupert has also come from a background where the only way to actgually make money was by making sure the quartermaster didn't know you had anything. Ffrom what he has seen, the addventuring life isn't much different from the guard on that point. He doesn't think it's right, but he does think it's how things work, since he has not seen any differently by and large. There are a couple of people he feels are problems on this front, and he is seeking to solve those problems.

I have heard numerous justifications from numerous people as to why they do it. Everything from "I use a lot of resources. What I take is to keep them all standing." To "No one else was searching it". Each one of them is a justification, nothing more. If your character has a problem with it *do* something about it.
 
right on the money their Dave.

What a lot of people who've posted in this thread seemto be missing, is that the vulturing is done IG, and is, therefor, an IG issue. If you play a dishonerable, sneaky character, then lootinga corpse while the stronger fighter takes the thrown toxins and swordblows is something that would be done, and if the fighter doesn't like it, then he'd best say something about it to someone. Its not like the act of searching is OOG, or even unnoticable.

Yes, it is a bit of a problem, but money isnt vitally important to ones NERO experience, and each tupe of class has their way of getting coin, through either fighting or through vending.
 
Yes, it is a bit of a problem, but money isnt vitally important to ones NERO experience, and each tupe of class has their way of getting coin, through either fighting or through vending.
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Actually, money IS vital to one's NERO experience. Money is needed in game to buy weapons and armor, add spells to spell books, as well as buy or MAKE anything involving production. The only GUARANTEED way to get coin for these things is to spend build on getting money.

Getting money isn't based on class. There's only one class that's specifically designed for making money. All the other classes get their goods from adventuring.

It's an IG problem that's become an OOG one. It's so rampant that it's pissing people off OUT of game. People pay money to play NERO. And while it's mostly for the RP and the combat, that little monetary reward keeps characters going. Without money, some characters slave away at whatever level they are, for however many years, barely keeping themselves from resurrecting every single weekend while the people who vulture loot sit back on their fat riches and protections... and pass on the bad habit.

It needs to stop.
 
Tho I do admit there are steps being taken IG to halt vulture looting (by myself and others) I dont think vulture looting is entierly IG. Yes I know the actions are done IG, but often the excuses are not, and people are ooc pissed about the lack of loot, so they ooc some to the decision to suddenly IG become a vulture looter. Part of it is the way looting is done IG. Let me give an example.

IRL if I wanted to loot someone laying on the ground, I would have to stand over them, and look through their clothing. It would be somewhat clear what I was up to, even if I was fast. All far and good.
Now IG, this is what often happends. Looter goes to body, sticks out weapon, and instead of killing blow, they search. NPC searches themself, and hands goods to looter, who is standing there looking around, looking rather innicent. All the goods (being small) go into looters hand, and into a bag/pocket in a blink.
As you can see, IG its much easyer than IRL. Now of course this is also done for NPC turn around time, and ease in the dark (a time when its easy to vulture loot) and so on.
 
I have to jump in on the side of the "vulture looters" here.

It *is* an IG problem. The NERO world is not a happy little flowery place where everyone will joyfully contribute to the greater whole. Frankly, if it were, I wouldn't enjoy the game. I don't want the town to unify for every problem -- that gets old fast.

I've dealt with the looting problem before... with the end of my sword. Polare has made dire threats (and backed them up) to specific people he catches doing it. That's all good -- it's an in-game solution. If your *character* doesn't like people doing it, then your *character* should come up with a solution. If you as a *player* don't like it... then you maybe need to examine what you expect the NERO world to be like.

The NERO world is supposed to be dark and gritty. Law prevails only where people can enforce it, and if you can get around the law without being caught, more power to you. This goes for both player vs player and player vs world interactions. If your character is able to sneak out of the woods and search bodies before they dissipate, then sneak back into the woods before anyone sees you, you *should* be rewarded for that. And if you get caught, then the other players should do something about it -- if they don't, then it's their problem. If OOG crutches are put into place because some people can't deal with an IG problem IG, then the game is lessened.

That said, I think that all NPCs *should* require a detailed search -- I certainly do when I NPC. It simply is more realistic than "I search you" and in 1 second flat you find everything on them.

-Bryan
 
I think vulture looting is apart of the game, its going to happen if you like it or not. If the healers aren't getting anything for healing on a mod then thats thier problem, and here is somthing they can do, stop healing. I don't think, no matter who you are or what your characters morals maybe, people are going to get fed up with healing people and getting nothing out if it. I know thats what my dad did and guess what? It worked. I know why new people would do it cause its realy hard for a new player to get anything because they just don't have the abillity to contribute to the party as much. I personally think it makes the game more interesting. I can remember during the "kill the big necro" battle Snare and a couple others were told to watch specificly for vulture looters and deal with it. I've noticed that people who are caught in the act of vulture looting give up what they found to the party most of the time. Thats just what I think.

brewer
 
Polare Lissenstine said:
That said, I think that all NPCs *should* require a detailed search -- I certainly do when I NPC. It simply is more realistic than "I search you" and in 1 second flat you find everything on them.
-Bryan
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Actually vulture looting can be an easy fix. It is an IG and OOG problem. Here are some suggestions to plot / monster camp that I had used previously while running the chapter:

1- Get rid of the 3 count. Not all actions are 3 counts. Make it a 60 count. (go ahead, try searching a body in detail- it takes about a minute). This is an easy fix and allowable within the rules.

2- Give out more treasure in RP mods. Pay for information. Pay for actual services. Gold can more easily be justified in paying someone like Balryn to retrieve an item, or paying someone to investigate something, or guard it. For more plausible ingame than finding gold coins in the tabbards of 50 year old zombies.

3- Rethink how "combat" loot goes out. Treasure can be on a body that has been beaten down, but it can also come from a wealthy merchant who is willing to pay 5 gold to have a wild animal removed from his crop fields. If the treasure is distributed this way, vulture looting can't happen.

I have never vulture looted (however Balryn gets acused of it all the time, just like everything else). I would rather fall back on traditional rogue scenarios. I tend to go for big payoffs and often don't even search my own kills, to Balryn killing a critter has nothing to do with the money.

Barry
 
Balryn said:
I have never vulture looted (however Balryn gets acused of it all the time, just like everything else). I would rather fall back on traditional rogue scenarios. I tend to go for big payoffs and often don't even search my own kills, to Balryn killing a critter has nothing to do with the money.

Barry
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See I am with you on this, other ways of stealing are way more RP oriented (Tho I suspect we have very diffrent targets and methods)

Just to be clear, I am not saying that staff needs to ooc stop the vulture looting, mostly I started this to talk about vulture looting, and the problem is it posing to some players ooc. Also as kind of a heads up about the fact that IG more and more is going to be done against it. Its not the simple fact that people are looting a little, its the fact they are looting a lot. Case in point, you search a body and it has 3 silver. You put 2 in the group pot, keep one. Thats stealing, but I dont mind that, IG its a little skimming. What bugs me are the people who search 10 bodys, and turn over (at the most) a few copper, saying they didnt find anything.
 
The way I see it, what goes around comes around. If money is split between the adventurers, then whatever shiney new magic item or whatnot will most likely benifit you in the end anyway. Whether it be confining the monster that was barreling down on you, or keeping a better fighter up and swinging longer, or killing monsters faster: its going to benefit all of us.

Right now, my sword is in the process of going *poof*. This is actually detrimental to everyone because, on occasion, I will give it to others who can use it more effectively so that whatever threat can be eliminated properly. Had I gotten some even shares of loot over the past six months, I might have been able to remake it in time, but now Im going back to swinging 2's in a couple of days. Frankly, I view it as everybody losing out.

Im starting to look into contracts, either verbal or written, to agree to prior to major adventuring outings. Bind them legally by contract before hand so that afterwards I can arrest them for not holding up their end of the deal. I would rather not abuse my authority in such a way, but it is starting to come to it.
 
Balryn said:
1- Get rid of the 3 count. Not all actions are 3 counts. Make it a 60 count. (go ahead, try searching a body in detail- it takes about a minute). This is an easy fix and allowable within the rules. Barry
Click to expand...

Actually it is just "I search you" no 3 count required anymore
 
Cymryc said:
Actually it is just "I search you" no 3 count required anymore
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To add to that, we cannot change the rules as they are written in the book. As far as searching goes, our options are either the quick search or a detailed search. Personally, I like the idea of requiring detailed searches and also that of simply not putting the loot on the monsters themselves.

-Dan
 
One way that I have been considering, and will be discussing IG later, is the idea of a designated looter. You know how we have that one special person who always has a "loot bag". Lately it has been Aeris, and my thought is that perhaps that loot-bag holder get escorted around the field to search things. If she/he (whomever is the holder of the bag) is the only one searching, then we have a much better idea of where all the items are going...

~Sean
 
Izlude_Oranes said:
One way that I have been considering, and will be discussing IG later, is the idea of a designated looter. You know how we have that one special person who always has a "loot bag". Lately it has been Aeris, and my thought is that perhaps that loot-bag holder get escorted around the field to search things. If she/he (whomever is the holder of the bag) is the only one searching, then we have a much better idea of where all the items are going...

~Sean
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I don't mind this... but I remember being the bad guy in a major undead battle and someone said this out loud....

If I had been playing a Death Rogue instead of a Skeletal Warlord... boy would I have been one happy undead.

Barry
 
Onixtul said:
I think vulture looting is apart of the game, its going to happen if you like it or not. If the healers aren't getting anything for healing on a mod then thats thier problem, and here is somthing they can do, stop healing.

brewer
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Note taken. Be prepared.
 
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