Want to get this Resolved

Mobius

Mobius

Squire
Chicago Staff
Marshal
I've been having more and more requests, questions, and problems with this whole "dueling" deal. Right now, there's no law enforcing or denying it in Briarpass, just a bit of precedent from Effram. Trial By Fire is an old custom, which works for a lot of groups, the Rockfists being one of them. There's a question of Seconds, terms, outcomes, all kinds of stuff. I've been to places where it's forbidden or only allowed if the issue is deep family honour and the only outcome is Resurrection, like in Koshinary; in other places, like the Northlunds, dueling is common place and can be something like an arm wrestling match to settle a bar tab. The Sheriff has been looking to me for a hard-line and since I'm pretty split on how to lean, I'm going to look to all of you for some thoughts.

I'll be making a decision this coming Market Day, but I want to hear what's on your minds. I'll be listening here, but I'll also bring it up at the Market Day for people who sleep too deeply. Like I said, I'm pretty split, so I need the insight. This is going to affect everyone in Briarpass so get some thoughts out there. Masters (AND those people who want to be Masters, this is a good time to show your mettle), I'm looking to you for some movement in all this. Thanks.

Renlee
 
Renlee,

I will seek you out as soon as I can in order ot weigh in on this issue, it seems that a regulation needs to be set, even if the regulation is simply that terms are decided and followed through at the moment of dueling.

There is a good deal to discuss, untill than my friend.

May you find warmth from Winter's sweet embrace,
Kevar Byrne
 
Ah would reccommend, if you decide to go d'is way wit' dem, d'at all duels be conducted only durin' de hour befo' all de healers go and remem'rize dey healin' spells, d'at way no one will be tempted to be wastin' resources d'at should be goin' to protectin' folk and healin' dey ills from legit'mat sources such as undead an' bandits an' de like. Also makes it so d'at de participants won't be completely tapped should such ills befall de town on dey own offensive an' defensive cap'bilities. Fine'ly, it make it so de folk involved get time to cool dey heads and mebbe t'ink it t'rough, decide mebbe it wasn't so big a' deal after all, an' dey don't do it 'tall. D'em's my thoughts from seein' all kinds o' foolishness in de dockside tavern brawls an' on board tensions on de ship down t'rough de years.

~Raif
 
Regent Renlee,

I look forward to this debate.

Deputy Rockfist
 
I can see little reason in a mode for resolving disputes which depends on martial superiority. Might as well forgo the rule of Law altogether and return to the anarchy of tooth and claw. It seems the most compassionate, patient, and cognizant people go haywire at the mere mention of "Honour Duels", as though a pustuled word or two could besmirch one's honour. Dueling just seems like an excuse for the strong to abuse the weak.


Master Dramthin Hartsboon
Keeper of the Tainted Grove
 
Mobius said:
I can see little reason in a mode for resolving disputes which depends on martial superiority. Might as well forgo the rule of Law altogether and return to the anarchy of tooth and claw. It seems the most compassionate, patient, and cognizant people go haywire at the mere mention of "Honour Duels", as though a pustuled word or two could besmirch one's honour. Dueling just seems like an excuse for the strong to abuse the weak.


Master Dramthin Hartsboon
Keeper of the Tainted Grove
Click to expand...


*quiet applause*
 
Though I can understand the need to vent one's anger at another in a physical way, I do not know that I agree that it needs to happen.

Truthfully, besting someone physically does not make you more "right" in a situation. But I am also all for the rights of people to do as they wish. So I am somewhat in flux over the whole situation.

My major issue with dueling comes from the fact that it is an unnecessary drain on the healers and general resources of the town. Dueling causes unnecessary injury, causes people to need healing magic that could be used in a more appropriate manner to save someone's life later that same day. For this reason more than any other I am generally against it, as there's no way I can see around injuring the other party, and there is only so much one can do with first aid skill.

Even if you fight just to breach of armor, armor doesn't grown on trees, blacksmiths need time and tools and resources -- all things they could be using to better purpose than to settle some squabble.

I suggest, if dueling is something we must do (and I rather think we should all be adult and honorable enough to solve our problems without violence) that it should be a structured system, with laws and rules regarding who can oversee, the terms specifically, and what the penalty is for any who interfere in the duel once both parties have agreed. All too often duels go father south because of outside forces or murkiness in the terms. A formal outlaying of rules regarding all of these facets would help curb these problems.

I also think it silly that all duels be physical. I would push, if we ARE to continue dueling to solve issues, to outline how such duels are created. I often find that they're the bigger or stronger hoping to best the weaker physically, in a venue they feel more confident. I suggest that if Bob challenges Pat to a duel, that Pat, as the challenged party has the right to declare the venue of the duel -- as in, how it will be seen. Maybe Pat is smaller than Bob, so Pat says they'll play checkers. If Bob wants to duel him, it will have to be at checkers. If Bob agrees, then Bob then gets to set the terms. Bob is worried about his smarts, so he says that it's not a singular game, but the best two out of three games. Then the duel is struck, and rules regarding who can oversee it can run their course from there. Specific rules can then be worked out, with the official overseer to approve and note them, and then at the prescribed time the duel can take place.

Formality I think is what is most required, and each side having a fair stake in what the duel is would solve this problem best.

Though my personal vote would be that I find dueling a somewhat lopsided petty affair, I can see how some people would find it a release for emotions that cannot always be properly or eloquently spoken, and therefore that things cannot be worked out that way. Though, if this is the case, I would urge these people to find someone to speak on their behalf. I know, that as a Master of Wayside Dramthin is always willing to help its people speak their minds, even when their tongues fail them. I would also offer the same services myself. I am willing to listen and help you explain yourself when you feel your words and or eloquence fail you, so you do not feel that the argument is lopsided in another's favor.
 
An hounour duel is a duel between two persons. Decided by them in terms. Ive been in lands where a magistrate or knight must stand witness to the terms of the dual to make sure it goes according to the terms. And A duel of honor isnt just a "im a much better fighter than you." ive seen Many duels purely about The name of the dual, Honor.

~returning back to my slumber...nothing gets resolved in dreams anyway~


Cazik Yeace
 
In Horn's End, when one wishes to honor duel with some one he must declare that he challenges his to an Honor Duel. When this happens the rules and parameters are generally set down by the two individuals involved. The two of them set down to hash out minor details such as, duel to the death, duel to the death with life spell, duel to knocked out, duel to first blood, duel to resurrection, ect, ect. once these things have been determined, then the duelers decide if they want to have a second, and a second is a person who can and will fight in place of the person involved if they are unable to. Once these have been determined the time and place are chosen, it may not be a duel on the stop and can sometimes take a long time to come about, this of course will give parties the opportunity to talk it over in the mean time if they feel they need too or something along those lines.

During these duels there is usually some one appointed as the person who will make sure that the duel goes as its set parameters and doesn't vary off that path. This is generally a non-biased person of neutral party. Generally it is always good to have some one of law in the vicinity so as to make sure that the two participants heed their own agreement and not decide at the end that the life spell is not needed. If one of the duelist decides to go beyond the deal and murder his opponent then it is time for the magistrate to step in and say something.

Duels such as these are generally unnecessary unless some one has offended some one else very deeply. I remember a duel being called against another man for insulting one man's wife and the offended party wanted blood compensation for the disrespect his foe had bid upon his wife. This duel was fought in the streets of the outskirts of town and the agreement was to the death with life spell, once the offended party realized that the man he had challenged was much less skilled than he, he decided not to kill him.

The recent duel was this type of duel only the offended party posed the challenge because the idea one or more persons martial prowess was challenged. This was to prove who was the strongest, the insulter or the insultee. These duels exist to show ones opponent that there is no weakness and he can overcome obstacles that the insulter obviously does not think he can. I'm sure that these types of duels have been going on for ages and some cultures will hold up such traditions for a long lasting length of time.

The other type of duel is the kind of duel that is meant to conquer. In this case the person posing the duel has done so in order to claim what he believes should be his through physical prowess. This dueling style doesn't just exist in adventurers but also in kings, when some one who controls lands and has power over the people then if he can move and expand and take over his neighbors land by fighting him and taking his place.

Of course, there is an easier way to do this and I believe it is a game created a long time ago by Mystic Wood Elves to minimize the blood shed. It involves a checkered gaming board with black and white squares and hand carved pieces to represent opposing crowns. Each piece has its own pattern of movement and can be used to conquer enemy pieces and remove them from the board.

Overall, duels can be organized by the persons involved but I believe that there should always be an unbiased overseer as well as some one of authority who can make sure that the rules set are followed and there is no fowl play. I also believe it is the sole responsibility of the parties involved to find these people and ask that they observe if one or neither can be found then the duel should be postponed until such requirements are met. Perhaps we can pose that upon the land to ensure that dueling is not taken lightly. It also should not matter whether or not the parties in the duel are protected under the law, this means that as long as the two parties participating in the duel are sentient creatures there should be no outside interference. This includes but should not be limited too, humans, high orcs, romani, elves of any kind, mystics, barbarians, kin, high orges, hobling, biata, goblins, and kobolds.

After all that though...if paricipants are unsure they should play chess or any other two player game. Checkers and Vorne Checkers could work too.

Squire Eldandiril
 
Regent Renlee,

I dont much like getting involved in politics but I think I should weight in on this debate. I know theres a lot of argument about making dueling illegal

I think of dueling as a way to stop outright fights. I've seen times when duels werent really "in" and all it did was cause more brawls. I dont like "brawls" cuz I cant move all the chairs and tables out of the way. I aprove of the way the High Orcs behave themselves in my tavern and by allowing them to "duel" I usually can collect a few for anything they might break.

Yeah I know thats the selfish view but I think I speak for all the Tavern owners when I say, make dueling unlawfull and either of 2 things will happen: 1 folks ell duel out of sight and more people will be hurt seriously as a result or 2 more out right fights will start and those can lead to more work for your sheriff and his stadd, loss of property, and life.

I know healers arguing that a duel takes away their "resources" but they dont have to heal anyone they dont support or can charge him for healing if they are a part of the earth guild. I know a lot of creampuff say that all a duel is is prooving that might makes right.... a duel isnt always about right and wrong... sometimes its about letting agression out in a controlled setting and letting the past be the past. No one is required to duel anyone so why tell others they cant duel? that to me seems like meddling in other folks affairs.... and if ya arent one to swing an axe, hammer or sword for a living maybe think twice afore spitting in that lumberjacks beer.

Just my two cents.

Jara
Tavern Keeper
 
All I ask is that honor duel not be to the death. It is stupid to waste a life no matter how careless or reckless some people are. We have such a finite life span and taking a resurrection for something so simple is outrageous. I hear people speak that murder is murder, then an honor duel to the death is just a fancy way of committing murder. The few who know me understand what i'm saying and what effect it has so if Rules and Guidelines are going to be laid down I vote Honor Duels to the Death be ILLEGAL!

I'm a Healer and I care a lot about those who are under my care. (If you are near me, you fall under that category)

And if anyone has a problem with this I will challenge them for my beliefs (Shows a checker board and some chess pieces)
 
Sae Azaka said:
All I ask is that honor duel not be to the death. It is stupid to waste a life no matter how careless or reckless some people are. We have such a finite life span and taking a resurrection for something so simple is outrageous. I hear people speak that murder is murder, then an honor duel to the death is just a fancy way of committing murder. The few who know me understand what i'm saying and what effect it has so if Rules and Guidelines are going to be laid down I vote Honor Duels to the Death be ILLEGAL!

I'm a Healer and I care a lot about those who are under my care. (If you are near me, you fall under that category)

And if anyone has a problem with this I will challenge them for my beliefs (Shows a checker board and some chess pieces)
Click to expand...

If a duel is not to the death, then what is the point? If one is unwilling to put their life on the line, then the point is not a question of honor, and the one unwilling to do battle should give way. You worry for unnecessary death, but it is simply a matter of proper behavior. One does not impinge upon the honor of another unless one is willing to pay the price in blood. It may take a resurrection to teach a foolish child the truth of this, but it is better foolish children do not often live to be foolish adults.

-Shin
 
Shin speaks truthylike.... not have time to duel stupid children when they old and stupid. Better teach honor and strength in back o blade.

Roska
Warrior of the Rockfistribe
 
One does not impinge upon the honor of another unless one is willing to pay the price in blood....
Click to expand...

I can see logic about defending your honor and understand it needs to be done. However there is a difference in spilling blood and murder, the size of the difference can swallow all of wayside. You fight untill only one stands to earn your honor back (or you don't) yet you should allow a healer from keeping them from completely dying. That doesn't take from your honor or make you weak, it is better to agree on this at least with a healer. I will not stand by and watch someone else die in front of me if i can prevent it.

So go ahead and beat each other in the head till what little mind you have left is bleeding out your ears. However if I'm there i will stop a body from resurrection, if you stop me you will face that which you deprive that person.
 
If those standing on the field know that life is not on the line, then the duel has less meaning than the scrapping of cubs who still have their milk teeth. The winner proves nothing, and the loser learns only that others will save him, no matter the stupidity he displays or offense he gives. Any fool will enter into the ring, should he know that no matter the result, he will suffer no harm.

This is the reason that the proper way is always to duel in a proper Circle, so that no man may interfere to prevent the defeated from regaining their honor in facing death with courage.
 
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