What would you charge?

Lurin

Duke
In the coming season, I'll be dipping my toes into the ritual system, and am seriously considering going very deep into ritual magic (as there are very few dedicated formal casters available from what I see.)

That being said, as the leader of a small team we are worried about 'halting' or 'Slowing' the main combat caster's growth (Bind-o-mancy mostly) but figure we can balance that out eventually by offering spellcrafting/casting services.

So for those in the know, or who just want to chime in, I have the following questions.

1.) What would you pay/charge for a spellcrafted ritual, what scale would you use? (Based on type, based on number of components, or difficulty/ranks)
2.) What would you expect for 'commision' work, meaning they have the scroll (or I do if spellcrafting) and components? Again consider difficulty or spellcraft ranks used up.
3.) What would you value random components and the all important Catalysts. Compared to Gold costs of course.
4.) What would you offer in 'credit' for friends of the group that contribute components or catalysts.
5.) What special circumstances would you reduce your rates/offer for free?

When answering these questions please keep in mind.

A.) No I'm not planning on charging everyone straight up, obviously close friends and specific events will come into play.
B.) I'm planning on spending 2 full columns of build (at least) in Ritual ranks, so this will be a major focus.
C.) I'd like to be able to help people outside my group so fairness is important, but I also view this as my likely major source of income to help my team.
D.) There is always a cost (in either 'Failure/backlash' risk, or opportunity cost of using up spellcrafting slots) I'd rather go without casting then devaluing my services once I've found a 'fair price'

To Start I'll answer my own questions from first blush.

1.) I was thinking either about 10 gold per catalyst, 2 gold per component.
2.) For commision work I was thinking base 2 gold, plus 1 Per difficulty level above 1
3.) I was planning on valuing components at 2 gold in 'trade' or 1 gold to buy if its something we can use. Catalysts would be valued much higher, and based on the ritual they fuel.
4.) As above I'd keep a 'rough' estimate of value of components/scrolls given. generally offering pro-bono work in exchange for gifts of rits/components not needed.
5.) As a serious "Good Guy" I'd look to reduce prices on any ritual that is being done to combat a specfic threat, people looking to cast necromatic rituals would be best advised to look elsewhere. (Unless you got one heck of a story/reason for such an effect)

To sum up, I think it will lead to some great fun/role playing to run a heavy rit caster, but I want to make sure that I can take care of my own at the same time. :geek:
 
Lurin said:
1.) What would you pay/charge for a spellcrafted ritual, what scale would you use? (Based on type, based on number of components, or difficulty/ranks)
2.) What would you expect for 'commision' work, meaning they have the scroll (or I do if spellcrafting) and components? Again consider difficulty or spellcraft ranks used up.
3.) What would you value random components and the all important Catalysts. Compared to Gold costs of course.
4.) What would you offer in 'credit' for friends of the group that contribute components or catalysts.
5.) What special circumstances would you reduce your rates/offer for free?

First off, let me state that I rarely get asked to Spellcraft (even if I offer my services freely) so my prices are based off of me generally having more supply then demand. The rarity of spellcrafting is probably because components are hard to come by for most people here in the WC. :)

1.) If I had to supply the components and scroll I would charge around X gold per component (negotiable) + X gold depending on the scroll + 1 gold service charge.

2.) A Spellcrafting commission would be just the 1 gold service charge. A ritual commission would be based on the difficulty of the ritual; something to the effect of 2 gold for 1-5 difficulty, 5 gold for 6-10 difficulty, 10 gold for 11-20 difficulty, and 20 for 21+. However, this is often negotiable and prices may vary depending any number of circumstances.

3.) Random components I would generally attempt to purchase between 1.5-2 gold each. Once again, we generally pay more out on the WC (from my experience in TC) due to our fairly limited supply. Catalysts can be much more valuable, especially if I know what ritual they go for. If it is a catalyst to an unknown ritual I will probably pay between 5-10 gold. If it is to a Permanent Duration ritual I may be willing to pay 150+ for it.

4.) Friends that contribute components would be given credit on a 1:1 ratio. People will learn that giving me a component can be more beneficial then just selling me one. Catalysts depend on if we know what ritual they go to and how spiffy/rare the ritual is.

5.) There would definately be the "Save the land/country/village/kingdom/world" discount. How much of a discount depends on the circumstances and can range from FREE to NO DISCOUNT. Also, there is the "Scratch my back and I will scratch yours" discount and the "Frequent/valued customer" discount.

If you just want to Spellcraft you shouldn't need more then 10 Formal levels, if that. If you have the desire to create the Awesome Artifacts of Super Duperness with a 20-rit Permanence, you may want to go for around 30.

(Disclaimer: This is just an opinion and only an opinion. I reserve to right to change my opinion at a later date. :))
 
Lurin wrote:
1.) What would you pay/charge for a spellcrafted ritual, what scale would you use? (Based on type, based on number of components, or difficulty/ranks)
2.) What would you expect for 'commision' work, meaning they have the scroll (or I do if spellcrafting) and components? Again consider difficulty or spellcraft ranks used up.
3.) What would you value random components and the all important Catalysts. Compared to Gold costs of course.
4.) What would you offer in 'credit' for friends of the group that contribute components or catalysts.
5.) What special circumstances would you reduce your rates/offer for free?

As one of the several (4+) large (20+ Formals) Rit Casters in Ohio:
1.) I do spellcrafting either free or for a couple silver if components and scrolls are supplied. If its something i personally do not have in my repertoire or collection i may memorize more to spellcraft on/for my team. First come first served reserving levels for my friends/team mates first.

2.) I base commissions on who is asking giving my own race (local native Ohio Biata) better rates than others. I usually default to 1G per difficulty level for each ritual they want cast with (LARGE) additional charges for any Obliterate, Death or heinous flaws/backlashes on the scroll. Generally I'm open to negotiation and will take items, lesser used rit scrolls, services or whatever is lieu of some of the cost. Frankly i base it off how i feel about the person asking it and what I know about their situation.

3.) Reagents I value at 1.5-3G /piece based on the current local economy for them. Some are rarer at times, some more common. If they're asking me to supply catalysts they're (probably) wasting their breath.

4.) Credit? If they collect components and scrolls those are either theirs in our trust or paid for to them in some way. I cast/spellcraft for friends and team mates for tips only generally because true friends and team mates use their abilities/spells/skills for me as well.

5.) Circumstances may dictate that my survival, or the survival of someone I care about (or the entire town), hinges on a casting and of course I'll do it for free. And of course I'll cast any ritual for the local Ohio Biata population (natives not visitors) completely free and have pulled from my own scrolls/components to do so when a ritual was highly needed. Generally when its an entire town ritual, however, components and requirements are pulled from EVERYONE. If any one individual (including myself or others) puts in most or all of the components/scrolls necessary I'll demand they receive compensation from "town treasure" (off the big bad guy).

And of course- when people steal from me, lie to me, mislead me or renege on promises I make sure everyone- including my less forgiving more homicidal friends- know about it.
 
Quinn said:
including my less forgiving more homicidal friends- know about it.

So that's why my ears were tingling...

But, back on topic for a bit...

When I had a bunch of formal levels (12, but it was as a templar so it counts more) I used pretty much all of my spellcrafting levels for my team. Most of the rituals that I was casting were along the lines of DFMs on enemy circles and Oblits on enemy bad guys, so more for the glory than the money ;-)

I did do a bit of casting of other rituals for people every once in a while, but it was usually for team people, or people where the casting of the ritual was part of a negotiated deal, i.e. We give you this scroll and you trade us that scroll and let us copy that other scroll.

In my general experience however, if you are spellcrafting something for someone, they need to supply everything. If they don't, you do this little thing called price gouging. Worst case scenario, they don't come back and pester you to borrow your stuff again.

Usually when I have to pay for spellcrafting, I supply sticks and scroll and pay 5 silver to a gold for the use of the rit levels, depending on the ritual.

For casting purposes, as Quinn said, its very much dependant on who I'm doing it for, and how much/little I despise them.
 
My primaries pricing policies tend to be as follows:

1) If someone desires spellcrafting: The price is usually one gold per difficulty level of spell crafting, and they must provide the ritual resources (components and scroll.) I also allow trade of one reagent for two gold (though few take me up on it.)
1a) If they need to purchase my components for the ritual I usually charge them two gold per reagent on top of the casting price.
1b) Renting of a scroll hasn't happened yet, but I'd thrown another couple of gold onto the price.

2) Outright ritual casting: On this I charge a flat rate of two gold per difficulty level of each ritual. I also keep my standard policy of one reagent=2 gold if they'd like to pay me with any reagents. They must provide the scroll and components. If they desire to buy the scroll or any components off of me that is basically a completely separate transaction since the price on these sorts of thing vary wildly.

Two gold per difficutly may not seem like much, but it can add up very quickly. Even I was surprised when I recently buffed up a magical sword for someone and the bill came to over 80 gold.

It's also worth keeping in mind that there are not a ton of celestial ritualists (the school of my primary) here on the east coast, so supply and demand as well as how rich the local PCs are can effect your prices.

Prices of catalysts aren't usually set. A Permanece catalyst is going to be a lot more valuble than a Planar Gate catalyst simply because of what they do. Supply and demand, as well as the local economy and other circumstances are going to be a huge factor here (for example, right after the rules shift a few years ago when everyone basically got a free spirit forge the price of a Spirit Forge catalyst dropped signifigantly.)

In cases where it was trying to solve a big plot arc threat, I usually perform rituals pro-bono unless I'm ordered to perform it by a noble (at which point I present a bill.)

-Hoyce
 
Hoyce said:
In cases where it was trying to solve a big plot arc threat, I usually perform rituals pro-bono unless I'm ordered to perform it by a noble (at which point I present a bill.)

-Hoyce

LOL... awesome
 
My method is pretty much the same as well, with the following exceptions. I will not pay more than a gold for a comp and unless I have a comp that is going to expire soon, you must provide your own comps (trades for the correct comp are acceptable).

Spellcrafting is 1G (or 1G equivalent of stuff that I deem equiv) /diff and you must provide the comps. This has been lower depending on the chapter's econ.

As far as casting rits, it completely depends on the rit/set of flaws and backlashes. If it's a dangerous scroll to cast (3 oblits/caster go rezzes/caster is a goblin/etc) it's gonna cost you more. This of course can be offset by need of the scroll being cast (we're all gonna die unless..., you're my friend, the both combined and you have handfulls of chocolate, etc)

I also don't do "credit." It's either their scroll and I spellcraft off it or it is my scroll. Credit is just asking for headaches later.

I will also throw in that unless it's halloween, I tend not to spellcraft much.

Jen
 
tieran said:
Hoyce said:
In cases where it was trying to solve a big plot arc threat, I usually perform rituals pro-bono unless I'm ordered to perform it by a noble (at which point I present a bill.)

-Hoyce

LOL... awesome

Eh...it would be awesome except that historically they never actually pay the bill.
 
Dave,

If you dont travel that much I mean if you only play in MN and Chicago I can say that in Chicago the set up and scheme of things is going to be different its still fairly low level and the treasure to date hasnt really been enough that casting rituals is going to be a normal thing I think we've only had to cast rituals there 2-3 times maybe.

Hopefully this season will change that but Im just not sure mate, I'd like to see more scrolls go out instead of the completely useless-waste of paper and ink scrolls I've seen go out lately.

-JC
 
I would expect that having more active PC ritual casters would likely make ritual casting more common. I know I've seen alot of ritual scrolls and components (Haven't ended up with many myself) so the potential is there. As for 'useless' scrolls, the ritual database is supposed to spit them out at random, so it seems like what is going out is in accordance with policy :mrgreen:
 
I LOATHE the idea of randomly generated scrolls going into game.. there should be a rhythm and reason for scrolls going out...if you are putting out a scroll but cant decide on which one..sure use the random generator.. but otherwise tailoring treasure and customizing it isnt that bad.. I mean if you rescued a life knight strong hold and found a bunch of transform to Undead scrolls.. while it would make sense on some level its just a waste of treasure considering the PC transformation policy.
 
Jorundr said:
I LOATHE the idea of randomly generated scrolls going into game.. there should be a rhythm and reason for scrolls going out...if you are putting out a scroll but cant decide on which one..sure use the random generator.. but otherwise tailoring treasure and customizing it isnt that bad.. I mean if you rescued a life knight strong hold and found a bunch of transform to Undead scrolls.. while it would make sense on some level its just a waste of treasure considering the PC transformation policy.

The good monster desk workers will attempt to tailor the ritual scroll treasure accordingly (the create undead would be on a necromancer or undead monster, the planar gate on the celestialist etc...) It's not 100% perfect, due to time constraints, resource demands and human error, but I've seen the attempt made in most chapters where I regularly NPC.

That said, if it's on a fighter, dumb monster or someone else who can't read a scroll, I think it's fine to make it random because the odds are good they don't know what they've got, only that it's valuable and can be sold. Then again I may be over thinking it...
 
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