Character building

Auric

Auric

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Curious to see what characters would look like under the current playtest rules. Based on the 0.7 rulebook please build a 20th and 30th level character you would play.
 
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I started looking at what my characters might look like in 2.0 earlier today; here's some of what I came up with. These builds aren't fully optimized (not like my current build is either) and I haven't played in the new rules yet, but these should get the idea across at least.

For reference, here's the card for my character Briar in the current rules:
Dryad Fighter (255 build, 54 body)
Read/Write
One-Handed Blunt, Two-Handed Blunt, Style Master, Thrown Weapon, Archery
5x Resist Binding
1x Blacksmith, 2x Teacher
9x Weapon Proficiency
4x Parry, 1x Riposte, 4x Slay, 2x Eviscerate, 3x Disarm, 2x Stun Limb

Or in other words, 14 damage with a +3 Long Mace and a bunch of fighter toys

There are a couple builds I was looking at for the presumptive rewrite that goes with the new rules system. One is a faithful recreation of the style I currently play and the other is rebuilding as a Scout. I was looking at builds around level 25 or 26, but I went ahead and built them up to level 30 to fit the question.

Dryad Fighter (313 build, 65 body)
Read/Write, First Aid, Healing Arts
Weapon Master, Style Master, Thrown Weapon, Archery
3x Resist Binding
1x Blacksmith, 1x Teacher
6x Weapon Proficiency
5x Critical Attack, 7x Slay, 5x Improved Slay, 4x Eviscerate, 7x Parry, 1x Riposte, 1x Resolute, 2x Shatter, 2x Disarm
Swinging 8s with a TON of blade skills - I would definitely consider getting two more profs for an even 10, but I'd have to drop a lot of the fun toys or other skills to make it happen. The Crit Attacks are mostly there to activate MIs, assuming I understand correctly how they work.

Dryad Scout (313 build, 48 body)
Read/Write, First Aid
One-Handed Blunt, Archery
3x Resist Binding
1x Blacksmith, 1x Teacher
4x Weapon Proficiency, 5x Backstab
2x Critical Attack, 2x Parry
2x Terminate, 5x Dodge
This is a significantly more defensive card, maybe even unnecessarily so. I'd probably tweak it to get a few more fighter/rogue toys, just to keep some of my character's current flavor. 6 from the front and 16 from behind isn't a huge difference from 5 and 15, so I might be willing to drop a prof to get some of those toys. The Scout card has a little more room to grow than the Fighter card, though that could be tempered by getting more profs and fewer toys on the Fighter.

I'll do a new post later on for my High Ogre Templar, who is conveniently almost level 20. (The character builder spreadsheet is really slick, by the way! Props to whoever made it!)
 
As a disclaimer, I am not a big fan of the present meta of having more build in pocket items than on the sheet, so my build theory on these guys is based on the assumption that their sheet is all they have.

A lot of my build choices would depend on how some of the subsystems work out in play, but here's a version of my current card as I would build it if given a rebuild:

Human Rogue (153 Build, 23 Body)
3 x Craftsman/Other
Herbal Lore
Merchant
1 x Teacher
Read & Write
First Aid
Archery
One Handed Edge
Style Master
1 x Blacksmithing
3 x Alchemy
2 x Assassinate
3 x Backstab
4 x Create Trap
2 x Dodge
3 x Disarm
1 x Terminate
3 x Improved Assassinate

Breakdown in play :
Longsword/small shield/heavy crossbow
2's from the front, 8's from the back, 7's with the crossbow
2/day Assassinate for 20+10+10+10=50 each with the longsword or 40+20+20+20=100 with the crossbow
Sufficient PP to set and build all traps
Sufficient Alchemy to use everything and build up to Vorpal 5's to go on bolts for the archery

The Create Trap and Alchemy might get removed in favor of another Backstab or shifted entirely into Create Alchemy depending on how the new trap rules play out in practice. I know at the site we usually use, there are precisely two places on site that can presently be reliably considered Game Rooms where traps will be effective, so that makes Create Trap a lot less of an increase in usefulness for me from that perspective beyond the new globes.

Only magic items he really carries are Arcane Armor and a couple per day cure lights, so his power level will not be remotely effected by the MI changes.


Theoretical build for my Alt at 20 :

Barbarian (Oathsworn) Templar (205 Build, 45 Body)
2 x Resist Element
4 x Resist Fear
2 x Craftsman
1 x Teacher
Read and Write
First Aid
Healing Arts
2 x Meditate
Weapon Master
1 x Blacksmith
1 x Disarm
3 x Hearty
2 x Improved Slay
1 x Intercept
2 x Parry
1 x Resolute
3 x Slay
3 x Weapon Prof
5 x Wear Extra Armor
Earth Spells :
4
4
4
3
2
1

Breakdown in play :
Two Handed Sword or Polearm for 7's
3/day Slays for 30+15+15+15 = 75
A few fighter skills for defense of self and others
42 body plus 30 points of armor for standup power
Decent Earth column

This is a pretty tanky front line healer by design. It's not fully optimized, as I should have probably aimed for 4 Profs for 9's with the two hander, but I wanted a broader skillset.

Again, only MI is a Earth 30AA, although with the new armor rules it would be fun to build out something physical as well.
 
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Without posting the whole card, my High Ogre, GRONK, is a Cel Templar at about level 18. He swings 9s with a two-handed club and has something like a 765/443/210 spell column. Here are a couple versions of the card in Alliance 2.0, one at level 20 and one at level 30. Since Weapon Proficiencies get so much more expensive under the new system, the new card is focused more on spells initially.

High Ogre Templar (213 build, 34 body)
Read/Write, First Aid, Healing Arts, Read Magic, Merchant
Two-Handed Master
1x Teacher, 1x Blacksmith
1x Resist Necromancy
2x Weapon Proficiency
1x Parry, 1x Resolute
15x Wear Extra Armor
654/444/321 Celestial
5x Celestial Formal

High Ogre Templar (311 build, 52 body)
Read/Write, First Aid, Healing Arts, Read Magic, Merchant
Two-Handed Master
1x Teacher, 1x Blacksmith
1x Resist Necromancy
4x Weapon Proficiency
2x Parry, 1x Resolute, 2x Hearty
15x Wear Extra Armor
665/444/444 Celestial
5x Celestial Formal

I wear a steel plated maille shirt with steel maille sleeves, steel plate bracers, and leather knee-high boots (picture) which currently rates at about 31 points. Assuming I'm rating it correctly, this should give a base of 3-point protection on abs, back, chest, and upper arms (21), 4-point protection on the forearms (25), 1-point protection on the shins (26), with "real material" bonuses for every location (32), and it typically receives full mastercraft/in-genre bonuses (38). I was already half-planning on getting a gambeson and/or adding some thigh armor to this get-up - a gambeson would bring the torso locations to 4-point armor and bring the total rating to 44 points.
 
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I have a celestial scholar in the mid 30s. The difference in build spending with the new rules would be making room for meditate. Everything else would stay the same.

Read and write = 3
Read magic = 4
12 block = 300
formal 15 = 45
meditate =4


To me, this character is much more powerful with the new rules. The real change is meditate allowing me to throw spells much faster since I don't need to worry so much about hitting the target. If defenders had too little time to call defensives before, things just got worse.

It also seems that celestial scholar will become the DPS champ with the new rules. Meditate helps as I can throw my dragon breaths quicker (well the name changes a bit with the new rules but they will always be dragon's breaths to me) and get back the misses. But comparing wand damage to profs shows where celestial scholars may outpace fighters.

Wand charges increase from 108 to 118, while wand damage decreases from 15 to 10. Compared to what will happen to fighters, this change to wand damage seem minor. Considering that fighter types will probably have their damage from profs cut in half (a player swinging 30s will have to invest big time to swing 15s now), I don't think fighters will be able to sustain damage as well as celestial scholars with the new rules.
 
I don't disagree with regards to Meditate, but if you've spent 350-400 build on Celestial scholarly skills, your wand should only be doing 8 damage in the new system. Considering a similar build could be doing as much as 19 damage currently (base 1 + 12 9th level spells + 3 for elemental burst + 3 for greater wand), I'd say wands are taking just as a big a hit as high-level fighters are with profs.
 
James Trotta said:
I have a celestial scholar in the mid 30s. The difference in build spending with the new rules would be making room for meditate. Everything else would stay the same.

Read and write = 3
Read magic = 4
12 block = 300
formal 15 = 45
meditate =4


To me, this character is much more powerful with the new rules. The real change is meditate allowing me to throw spells much faster since I don't need to worry so much about hitting the target. If defenders had too little time to call defensives before, things just got worse.

It also seems that celestial scholar will become the DPS champ with the new rules. Meditate helps as I can throw my dragon breaths quicker (well the name changes a bit with the new rules but they will always be dragon's breaths to me) and get back the misses. But comparing wand damage to profs shows where celestial scholars may outpace fighters.

Wand charges increase from 108 to 118, while wand damage decreases from 15 to 10. Compared to what will happen to fighters, this change to wand damage seem minor. Considering that fighter types will probably have their damage from profs cut in half (a player swinging 30s will have to invest big time to swing 15s now), I don't think fighters will be able to sustain damage as well as celestial scholars with the new rules.
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Celestial is likely not champ. Please note the armor/body changes:
- Fighters (and fighter hybrids) may buy extra body
- Racial body scales
- Armor goes to 62
- Armor can be formally doubled to 124 on a temporary basis.

The above makes celestial pretty weak IMHO, given how many spells need to be thrown to get through all that. The spells do good damage, but it'll take a LOT of them.
 
Considering the fact Cloaks are gone in the current playtest, that Celestial caster ain't beating armored fighters with damage.

They're beating them with crowd-control.

It'll be a race for the C-Caster to get through Spell Parries/Dodges *if applicable/Resist Magic *if applicable. But it's a race I'm probably not betting on the fighter winning.
 
It was brought up in a separate thread that the new rules make it a lot more possible to work with a 'Tank' style fighter, so I decided to build an example based on my own playstyle.

To define role-wise what I would consider a Tank :
A character who is, by design, able to take and mitigate relatively large amounts of damage as their primary ability. In a group, this is often the front line combatant whose role will be to prevent enemies from engaging the squishy primarily ranged combatants such as casters or dedicated archers.

High Orc Fighter (205 Build, 77 Body, 55 Armor)
5 x Resist Fear
First Aid
Read and Write
Weapons Master
Style Master
1 x Blacksmith
1 x Fast Refit
8 x Hearty
5 x Intercept
5 x Parry
3 x Resolute
2 x Riposte
4 x Weapon Prof
20 x Wear Extra Armor

This is a beast. Weapon/shield would be my inclination, although two-hander would extend the usefulness of Parries and Intercepts as well as pulling a couple more damage on swings, although dealing damage is not this character's primary goal.
 
I am still quite low level, only 10, but my build in the new system would look like this:

Dryad Artisan, 109 Build, 13 Body, 6 Armor
Read/Write
First Aid
Healing Arts
Herbal Lore
Merchant
Alchemy x10
Create Potion x10
Earth Level 1 x1
Teacher x1
Craftsman (Various) x17

At level 20, I'm looking at this:

Dryad Artisan, 205 Build, 21 Body, 20 Arcane Armor
Read/Write
First Aid
Healing Arts
Herbal Lore
Merchant
Alchemy x20
Create Potion x20
Create Trap x10
Earth Level 1 x1
Teacher x1
Craftsman (Various) x20

And at level 30, I'll theoretically be aiming for this:
Dryad Artisan, 307 Build, 30 Body, 20 Arcane Armor
Read/Write
First Aid
Healing Arts
Herbal Lore
Merchant
Alchemy x20
Create Potion x20
Create Trap x20
Earth Level 1 x1
Dodge x2
Teacher x1
Craftsman (Various) x48

While the above builds probably seem pretty strange due to lack of weapon skills, my character is not in any way combat oriented; he functions as a sort of permanent town fixture anyone can go to if they need healing, or just an extra body for an adventure. It probably sounds quite boring when I word it that way, but I thoroughly enjoy myself playing this character. As a side benefit of always being around and generally being willy-nilly with taking payment for things, I get to satisfy my out of game motherly instincts by making sure any new players are laden down with free potions and/or alchemy (and soon also trap bombs) before they go out; I think it's a nice way of bringing them into the game, and gives them some leeway to build some wealth for themselves their first couple of events (especially Earth casters, since they tend to have fewer chances to loot and people tend not to pay coin for healing).
 
Here is something quick I threw together
313 total build (still level 30), Hobbling Fighter
OHE, Shield
Weapon prof x6
Parry x7
Hearty x5
Eviscerate x4
Riposte x4
Crit attack x13
Alchemy x3
R/W
Racial dodge x2
With 74 body
 
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Human E Templar
314 build
OHB
Shield
Weapon Prof x4
parry x2
5,5,4,4,4,4,4,4,4
Formal x5
alchmey x3
create trap x1
dodge x1
r/w
first aid
meditate x3
 
James Trotta said:
I

Read and write = 3
Read magic = 4
12 block = 300
formal 15 = 45
meditate =4
Click to expand...

Why only 1 purchase of Meditate? That would allow you to be able to meditate only level 1-3 spells, then.

For me, I have a Slothkyn on the books that I plan to bring in. When he is level 20 I expect him to be:

Claws - 8 Build
Resist Spell x 3 - 15 Build
Resist Poison x 3 - 12 Build
Read and Write - 3 Build
First Aid - 2 Build
Healing Arts - 2 Build
Meditate x 6 - 24 Build
Earth 4-column - 100 Build
Earth Formal x 15 - 45 Build
------------------
Total - 211 Build
 
So I tried to build a damage oriented fighter, which may be worth comparing to the 356 build celestial scholar I posted above:

OHE, shield
Blacksmith 1
Prof 8
crit attack 20
improved slay 8
slay 12
parry 10
riposte 6

396 build. I didn't spend forever crunching the numbers, but it's worth noting that I felt forced to start buying defensive skills along the way.
 
I didn't see that 1-3 thing. These new rules are not simple enough!
Alavatar said:
Why only 1 purchase of Meditate? That would allow you to be able to meditate only level 1-3 spells, then.
Click to expand...
 
James Trotta said:
So I tried to build a damage oriented fighter, which may be worth comparing to the 356 build celestial scholar I posted above:

OHE, shield
Blacksmith 1
Prof 8
crit attack 20
improved slay 8
slay 12
parry 10
riposte 6

396 build. I didn't spend forever crunching the numbers, but it's worth noting that I felt forced to start buying defensive skills along the way.
Click to expand...

Try respending with Shatter and Disarm instead. Their effectiveness in 2.0 is going to be *amazing*.
 
So, at 352 build, which is roughly somewhere around where my primary is...
Wylderkin, Earth Templar:
Claws
Resist Command x4
Resist Poison x2
Herbal Lore
Merchant
Teacher (1)
Read/Write
Read Magic
First Aid
Healing Arts
One Handed Edged
Stylemaster
Blacksmithing 1
Crit Attack 10
Disarm 5
Eviscerate 1
Improved Slay 2
Slay 2
Parry 2
Riposte 1
Shatter 2
Alchemy 3
Create Trap 3
Stun Limb 2
Earth 4 column
Earth Formal 5
Celestial 1

Jack of all trades, master of none, but better than a master of one. ;)
 
I'm fairly convinced that the incentive for high levels of Formal Magic are going to be gone with the current playtest. Elemental Burst no longer contributes Wand Damage, and Healer's Resolve is utterly outpaced by Spell Slots due to the changes in Storm Spells.

While Formals will still be useful for Cloaks/Banes/Rebirth/Arcane Armor, I'm not certain there's a lot of reason for any Formalist to have more than 15 Formals outside of some ritual casting, which is occasional at best.

Edit: Oh, and Magic Augment. Duh.
 
TBH, if I could access formals with my artisan the way fighters and rogues access their skills, I'd totally pick up formals for her, and in great quantity.
 
Inaryn said:
TBH, if I could access formals with my artisan the way fighters and rogues access their skills, I'd totally pick up formals for her, and in great quantity.
Click to expand...

Which makes a lot of sense. Formal Magic is going to be less efficient for "Combat" stuff while remaining useful for "Production" stuff. If Create Potion/Scroll worked towards qualifying for Formal like Alchemy does for Dodge? I'd totally see Artisans picking it up.
 
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