Draven
Count
So you're in agreement that Earth needs an extra healing resource, then? Because that's what this statement sounds like, and is literally most of my argument.
[.10] - Relics impressions
- Thread starter Draven
- Start date
So you're in agreement that Earth needs an extra healing resource, then? Because that's what this statement sounds like, and is literally most of my argument.
I can't speak Nationally, but locally, we're at around 19.53 APL.
I don't think this list means that an earth caster needs extra healing resources outside of what we have available at all. This list has chosen to take no healing aside from at level one and instead is focusing on preventing damage via defensive protectives (And lets be real, weapon shield should just be more healing as long as PTD is out or slow) and lock down. This is a list that chooses not to bring healing in column so any healing it does bring would have to come from its formal levels and healer's resolve. Its one list, you can mix it up to suit your taste, drop a death for a big heal, turn a few elemental shields in earth blades or sleeps or more healing, but the fact that we can talk about this list and not just write off 9's as life is a victory for me. Its evidence that the life wand has legs and might lead to more interesting lists in the future.
Draven
Count
Exactly the opposite. Earth scholars have plenty of options if they choose to use curses/bindomancy/protectives and are quite effective in doing so, which is three whole schools of magic. If they want a 4th (healing) frankly there is no substitute for more build, as it creates more options (either in high magic or more slots).
Should earth scholars get the ability to heal automatically just because of their class? And what happens when a fighter drops 10 ranks into create potion or picks up some cure lights? Should they have access to this same earth scholar resource we have yet to define?
DiscOH
Artisan
In .10, a level 30 pure celestial wand provides... ~600 damage per day?
That's what, 3 kills@ level 30?
Wands don't seem significant until you get a lot higher than that. I think we should be fixing the growth curve on wands instead of handing them out.
I fully support life elixirs/life relics though.
That's what, 3 kills@ level 30?
Wands don't seem significant until you get a lot higher than that. I think we should be fixing the growth curve on wands instead of handing them out.
I fully support life elixirs/life relics though.
With those options, wouldn't a lot of your healing come from high magic, just like as a celestial scholar a lot of the damage would come from elemental burst? I do not have anywhere near these options and I imagine most characters don't, so please fill me in.
I am looking at low level earth scholars and seeing a lot of slots being used for healing. As a high level scholar why wouldn't you be able to free up slots by using high magic for your healing instead?
Draven
Count
Curses and Bindomancy are pretty strong, sure. But they hit Dodges/Resists/Dumb Defenses/Phases, and that’s before factoring Monster Strength, immunities.
Should Earth Casters get healing automatically? Absolutely, because the culture expects them to.
Everything I talk about in terms of expectations of Earth Casters being expected to heal/Life doesn’t just come from nowhere. It’s something I’ve experienced, and others have experienced. It may differ in amount from chapter to chapter, but it’s there.
That expectation means that an Earth Caster who doesn’t memorize sufficient healing will be seen as a bad caster. This will impact who will want to team with them, whether they get invited to mods, and whether someone will look out for their well-being in a fight.
By giving them a healing resource, you’re allowing Earth Casters the ability to meet (if not specialize) that expectation, while still allowing them to make whatever choices they want for their enjoyment with their spell slots.
norman b
Squire
So I will start with my impression of relics: poor.
As an idea, I like them, but as a function, they execute poorly. They have a timer where celestial is instant. Poor balance. Time limits like 1 minute is going to just have people waiting until it's safe, and by that point, letting the 10 minutes run out is probably better from a resource stand point.
Now for the split between scholars. Here's a radical idea that will get killed immediately: quit splitting scholars. Make it one class. Have access to all the spells. Scrap wands or change them to be able to channel earth/chaos as well as SLIF. Allow high magic to be flexible enough to choose how you want to specialize for the weekend.
As an idea, I like them, but as a function, they execute poorly. They have a timer where celestial is instant. Poor balance. Time limits like 1 minute is going to just have people waiting until it's safe, and by that point, letting the 10 minutes run out is probably better from a resource stand point.
Now for the split between scholars. Here's a radical idea that will get killed immediately: quit splitting scholars. Make it one class. Have access to all the spells. Scrap wands or change them to be able to channel earth/chaos as well as SLIF. Allow high magic to be flexible enough to choose how you want to specialize for the weekend.
Draven
Count
I considered this, then tossed the idea out because of the following:
1) I don't think it would fix anything, really, outside of DPS casters preparing a little bit of side healing, and literally nobody picking Death over Prison ever again, except maybe by @Samyania,
2) I do think it would have been better to treat Earth and Celestial as completely separate classes, rather than just being Primary/Secondary schools. In D&D, for example, both Clerics and Wizards get access to 9 levels of spells, but those spell lists play -waaaaay- differently (which is why Clerics get access to heavy armor, better Fort saves, better HP, better attack bonuses). Because Alliance tries to equivocate the two types of magic, it results in each type being compared to the other, instead of how it necessarily benefits the entire field of play.
This sounds like a culture problem (maybe with alliance as a whole) more than anything else.
But to move the conversation forward, if tying life to relics is not a step to fix this problem (freeing up 9th slot) combined with healers resolve (frees up other spell slots), what is the fix?
One thing I haven't really seen much in this thread is discussion of the low-level experience. I've heard tossed around the fact that wands were added to give C-casters more stuff to do. I definitely had the "not enough to do" experience as a starting Earth caster. A wand would have doubled the amount of packets I got to toss around -- I'd have been thrilled.
But Relics don't give more to do, at least not reliably, since they depend on other people taking status effects.
I gather healing wand isn't a popular idea, but I really don't understand why...
But Relics don't give more to do, at least not reliably, since they depend on other people taking status effects.
I gather healing wand isn't a popular idea, but I really don't understand why...
DiscOH
Artisan
In .10, You need to be level 15 before your wand hits as hard as a crossbow @0 proficiency.
Wands do nothing for low level players.
I can't speak to the Celestial side, from personal experience at least. All I know is, low-level Earth scholar was miserable. I'd have taken an ineffective wand over no wand at all.