Bane vs. Weapon strike sleep

Weapon Shield replaces Magic Armor, and the Weapon Coating rules weren’t changed, to my knowledge, about what defenses are applicable:

Page 108 of the ARB:

In order for a target to be affected by these weapon poisons, the strike must do body damage to the target. This effect is for one strike only and can be resisted or blocked by a Poison Shield or a Magic Armor (or in the case of certain races, possibly by racial Resists).

So if Weapon Shield no longer blocks weapon coatings, that’s a change that I don’t think has been listed anywhere, and should be.
 
The new rulebook removes that section and specifically lays out example defenses.

Uh, cool, I’m gonna let my local marshals know there was a change to the rules that we weren’t aware of and isn’t listed anywhere.

This actually makes me hecka concerned about what other changes are in the official RB but not listed anywhere.
 
I'm just a messenger.

But, it seems fairly obvious to me that Weapon Shield only works against the weapon qualifier.

It looks like I'm doing more harm then good though, so I'm going to not post anymore.
 
Well, technically the change is listed in the .12b packet, as quoted earlier.

But even under the 2.0 rules, weapon-delivered Poison like "5 Poison Sleep" still have to break through your armor before it affects you, just like any other Carrier attack with a numerical value.

Again, on my phone so I don't have the packet to reference, but in theory it can be blocked by Evade, Parry, Poison Shield, and Weapon Shield, although it's possible that for the Poison Shield to pop it would have to hit your Body, whereas the others should definitely be viable even if it would only damage your armor.
 
I'm just a messenger.

But, it seems fairly obvious to me that Weapon Shield only works against the weapon qualifier.

It looks like I'm doing more harm then good though, so I'm going to not post anymore.

I’m not blaming you, though I don’t know if I’d call it obvious. It’s a change that makes sense, sure, but it’s still a change. As a Marshal, I just like changes documented, is all.
 
I know Counteract for example specifically will not work on poison coatings. It’s clear in that description. I was assuming weapon shield would be updated to be the same.
 
I know Counteract for example specifically will not work on poison coatings. It’s clear in that description. I was assuming weapon shield would be updated to be the same.

I would definitely expect Counteract to be useable on all uses of Raging Blow, no different than Parry or Evade. If it wouldn’t, I would argue that maybe Raging Blow shouldn’t be useable with a coating attack.
 
Yeah unfortunately raging strike nor counter act work that way per the wording
 
Isnt it a good rule of thumb that if it has a number (5 posion sleep) delivered via a weapon it is blocked by a Weapon Shield
 
Isnt it a good rule of thumb that if it has a number (5 posion sleep) delivered via a weapon it is blocked by a Weapon Shield

If Weapon Shield will block multiple qualifiers, it probably shouldn't be named after one qualifier. If it protects you against multiple things that might damage you, might I suggest "Magic Armor"? ;)

But as for your rule of thumb, it sounds like "5 spell strike chaos" would also be blocked. It's swung with a weapon. Should "strike" disqualify? Then what about "5 poison strike sleep"?
 
Here are the relevant quotes from 2.0 packet:
<quote>
"An explicit keyword has been added, Strike, which allows a Physical delivery to use the packet targeting rules for that attack only. This will be familiar for players who used “Spellstrikes” before and works exactly the same way. The Strike keyword can be added to any qualifier attack now, not just Spell qualifier, and is announced directly after the qualifier in an attack verbal. For example, a character may swing “Spell Strike Prison” and affect the target with a Spell Prison even if they hit the target’s shield; the target may of course call any applicable defenses. For clarity, if a Strike attack uses the Weapon qualifier, it must explicitly announce the Weapon qualifier with the attack."

"Some defenses – like Parry and Riposte or other weapon-specific defenses – have changed to specify that they work against any attack with either the “Weapon” qualifier or the “Poison” qualifier (only if the attack is made with the physical delivery). This helps eliminate some exceptions."

"Evade has changed significantly since there are no longer Prepare to Die calls. Evade is a Smart Defense which can be used to evade any Weapon qualifier attack that has scored a valid hit, including arrows, bolts and thrown weapons. Evade cannot be used against any other qualifier, including Poison or Spell, nor can it be used to prevent attacks on any other character nearby."

"Counteract – 2 XP (Rogue), 10 XP Stealth Skills per purchase, Daily - Stealthy characters are notoriously difficult to pin down in combat. Characters with this Smart Guard defense may call "Counteract" to negate a single Weapon Strike attack that they otherwise validly block. Note that this may not be used against Strike attacks with other qualifiers like Spell or Poison, nor may it be used against a Weapon Strike that validly connects with the character. It may be used once per Logistics period per purchase."
</quote>
(Riposte being listed there is almost certainly legacy from before Riposte was changed to its current description.)

Its worth noting that Evade and Counteract explicitly say they can't be used against poison. So this is really just about Parry and Weapon Shield. I think the poison thing is a weird special case, that is only existing because we are coming from the previous rules set, and people are used to being able to parry poison when physically delivered.

Strike means "treat as if packet delivered", and if you allowed parry to block physically delivered poisons it should not work against a "5 poison strike" even if delivered by a weapon.


I'd argue from a mechanics purist point, we should do away with defenses knowing about physical delivery. Weapon shield should block weapon qualifier attacks and nothing else; poison shield should block poisoner qualifier attacks and nothing else; spell shield should block spell delivered attacks and nothing else; elemental shield should block elemental deliver attacks and nothing else. I think we should embrace the 2.0-ism and parry & evade & counteract should work for weapon qualifier attacks and nothing else, and we should just get used to poison attacks requiring a poison defense and not a weapon defense. And that vague exception should either be removed. Or if we have to keep it, instead of having it be a vague sentence not tied to specific skills, we bake the exception in to the specific skill descriptions it applies to so that you can look at the skill and know what it does.
 
Folks, you're all overthinking this.
.
"Some defenses – like Parry and Riposte or other weapon-specific defenses – have changed to specify that they work against any attack with either the “Weapon” qualifier or the “Poison” qualifier (only if the attack is made with the physical delivery). This helps eliminate some exceptions."

Weapon Shield works against both Weapon qualifier and physical-delivered Poisons in both 1.3 (as Magic Armor) and 2.0 (as Weapon Shield).

(note: this was NOT true in some of the early versions of the playtest packets; it got changed around version 0.6 on Owner request to keep it consistent with the 1.3 behavior)

-Bryan Gregory
ARC
 
Weapon Shield works against both Weapon qualifier and physical-delivered Poisons in both 1.3 (as Magic Armor) and 2.0 (as Weapon Shield).

Ah, this wasn't mentioned explicitly in the .12 packet. So let me try to get this straight:

Weapon Shield blocks:
  • Weapon Sleep (on qualifier)
  • Weapon Strike Sleep (on qualifier)
  • 5 Poison Sleep (from a weapon swing, on physical delivery)
  • 5 Poison Sleep (from a blue packet, on physical delivery)
Weapon Shield does not block:
  • Poison Sleep (from an orange packet, wrong delivery)
  • 5 Poison Strike Sleep (from a weapon swing, strike converts it to packet delivery)
  • 5 Poison Strike Sleep (from a blue packet, same reason)
Omitted hypothetical "5 Poison Sleep" orange packet, because I assume no monster throws numeric orange packets, right?
 
Last edited:
There is also "5 Poison Strike Sleep (from a blue packet, since blue packets don't follow packet delivery rules, but strike converts it back to packet rules)" which I think would also go under "Weapon Shield does not block"
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ken
So let me try to get this straight:

Weapon Shield does not block:
  • 5 Poison Strike Sleep (from a weapon swing, strike converts it to packet delivery)
  • 5 Poison Strike Sleep (from a blue packet, same reason)
My read is that the strike keyword allows you to use non-arrow packet targeting rules, but it is still a physical delivery. Hence weapon shield applies. Otherwise you would not be able to use a weapon shield against 500 Weapon Strike Body, for example.
 
My read is that strike allows you to use packet targeting rules, but it is still a physical delivery. Hence weapon shield applies. Otherwise you would not be able to use a weapon shield against 500 Weapon Strike Body, for example.

Weapon shield blocks all Weapon attacks based on qualifier, so the delivery isn't relevant. But that's still relevant to striking with physical poisons. It's not clear to me whether it still counts as physical for that purpose. For simplicity, it probably should be, I'm just not sure it's written that way.
 
“The Strike keyword allows the Physical delivery to use packet targeting rules for that attack only.”

It doesn’t change the fact it’s physical delivery.

Weapon Shield would still apply.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ken
@Draven has it right.

Weapon Shield blocks any Weapon qualifier attack. It also blocks any Physical delivery Poison qualifier attack. Blue packet, sword, Weapon trap coated with a poison, whatever.
 
Back
Top